Welcome to the Jazz Shapers Podcast from Mishcon de Reya. What you are about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM however the music has been cut due to rights issues.
Elliot Moss
Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today is Molly Johnson-Jones, CEO and co-founder of Flexa, a platform connecting job seekers with companies offering flexible working environments. While working in Investment Banking and asking to work from home one day a week due to an auto immune disease which means she sometimes can’t walk, Molly was 10 days later shown a settlement package and asked to leave the company immediately. Searching for work that offered the flexibility she needed, Molly and her partner, Maurice realised the lack of transparency in the job hunting process was problematic for both candidates and companies. In 2019 they launched Flexa with third co-founder Tim Leppard, vetting and verifying company’s flexible working policies to create transparency for job seekers about exactly what was on offer. Flexa now works with over 200 companies including Mars UK, Microsoft, Virgin Media and Action Against Hunger UK and over 2 million – that’s a lot – 2 million users in a 100 different countries are supported by the platform. I’ll be talking to Molly in just a few minutes and the music in today’s Jazz Shapers you will be pleased to know comes from Dr John, Allen Toussaint, Jacob Collier and here’s Oscar Peterson with Soulville Samba. It’s very nice to have you here. Flexa I believe is now almost 3 million users?
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yes we are very…
Elliot Moss
I hear from special sources i.e. you. Tell me in your own words what Flexa is?
Molly Johnson-Jones
So we are building a platform to enable people to understand what it’s like to work in a company before they actually get there and hoping to sort of usurp glass door in that journey of people being able to filter. So you know when you go on Airbnb and you say I want a dog friendly cottage with a hot tub and all of those properties that match that come up. We’re building that for careers for companies so people say I want to be able to work from home one day a week, I want to be able to work flexible hours to drop my kids off and the ability to travel the world for two weeks a year while working would be wonderful. All those companies that match that come up in different industries, as you mentioned in the introduction that we work with over 200 companies, different industries, different you know, role types, all sorts of information about exactly what it’s like to work somewhere bringing massive efficiency into the process because people can make an educated decision about whether a company is right for them or not.
Elliot Moss
That’s a lot of data.
Molly Johnson-Jones
It is a lot of data, in fact it’s over 100 million data points that we now hold.
Elliot Moss
And then do you squash them altogether and have some really clever bits or algo, algorithmic things happening that enable you to surface all of that stuff?
Molly Johnson-Jones
And enable people to target by demand so say company’s want to increase their gender diversity in their company then we can say to them well if you want to do that you need to think about implementing these three different things because that is what 60% of women in a certain age bracket are looking for so we can start to bring real insight and nuance into how company’s target their ideal talent.
Elliot Moss
And when you set this up back in 2019 the technology was very different I imagine, what was the kind of the, the minimum viable product, the beta as it were of all of this. What did that look like?
Molly Johnson-Jones
It was very scratchy, it was a real like job platform and we’ve really moved away from that model but we had companies come to us say, ‘hey this job can be done three days a week from home, can we put it on Flexa’ and we said, ‘yep sure’ and we had about gosh 6,000 people searching specifically for jobs and they put those filters on and then roles would come up but we realised that actually relying on job descriptions wasn’t helpful for the companies because they weren’t building reputations or employer brands associated with the positive and unique things about them whereas actually if you term hiring more into a marketing funnel and you say we’re doing a marketing, we’re getting you known as a really family friendly, a really inclusive employer or a place with amazing career progression or some other really autonomous culture you are building a proactive right kind of people that really want to work for you rather than having to reactively open a new job description every time you want to hire. It’s like, I kind of see it a bit like you know, you’re running a marathon every week or not every week that’s a bad example, you’re running a marathon every year and every time you just run it and then you stop training and then you have to do it again. Companies should be building this proactive talent pipeline that means they’ve always got the pick of talent.
Elliot Moss
So we are at the point where you go, you’re saying it’s not about advertising the job which is a three day job, it’s about a promotion, a marketing funnel for the company. So I. I go on what happens? How does it work? Who starts the order as it were, the conversation?
Molly Johnson-Jones
So we’ve got about 150,000 new users coming on every month conducting their searches so they come and they put their filters on, they’ll say you know, what’s really important to me is A, B and C, dog friendly office, autonomous culture and disability representation. They click those filters and all of those companies come up and every company on Flexa has a profile that they can… a bit like a sort of pic and mix menu of things. They can pick what they want to be seen for and then they verify that with employees so all of the information on Flexa is verified by employees which is why we are trusted by so many people.
Elliot Moss
Okay.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Because often I call it corporate catfishing, often companies tend to say nice things to get as many applications as possible whereas actually what people really want to know is whether that organisation is the right fit for them so we take a statistically significant sample size of their employees, ask them to say whether yes it is dog friendly or yes there is disability representation or yes it is an inclusive culture which means that people use a sort of source of truth for what it is really like to work somewhere rather than having to sift through hundreds of reviews that some bitter employees have left three years ago or people who have been incentivised to write on day two.
Elliot Moss
So the day one idea is here’s a job, you want it to be flexible, well this is flexible what you want has actually morphed into as you call it the source of truth and a much more interesting barometer of whether a company is doing what it says it’s doing.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Exactly.
Elliot Moss
That’s kind of cool and is that, that’s obviously very commercially successful as well. Is that, I mean is that the natural thing is that then both companies and employee’s trust that this is a platform where they can indeed meet each other?
Molly Johnson-Jones
Exactly that and it means that companies because they are showcasing themselves not to the few hundred people that might stumble across the job description but they are showcasing themselves to millions of people on Flexa and then hundreds of millions of people through our marketing reach.
Elliot Moss
And it starts with the company rather than the job?
Molly Johnson-Jones
Exactly so then they are changing the perception of their company and then funnelling that down into then people going hey and there’s this marketing role that is a perfect fit for me so they are generating a passive kind of pipeline of talent as well.
Elliot Moss
But it’s always about flexibility?
Molly Johnson-Jones
Not always.
Elliot Moss
Ah okay because that’s why, because obviously I want to talk about you and what happened specifically when you know a settlement letter arrives 10 days after you said, ‘excuse me I’d like to work one day a week’.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Um, so now you’re… it’s bigger than that is it?
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah so we started off with just flexibility because it was very much the zeitgeist at the time obviously during Covid although we didn’t know that was going to happen um…
Elliot Moss
You didn’t know Covid was going to happen, I can’t, we all knew obviously, Molly!
Molly Johnson-Jones
We had a lot of people wonder if we had set it up because of the amount of flexible working.
Elliot Moss
I mean I know Oxford’s good but it didn’t tell you that Covid was happening, I mean that’s ridiculous.
Molly Johnson-Jones
I know, it didn’t teach me to read minds.
Elliot Moss
Oxford graduate by the way just in case, sometimes they tell you because how do you know if someone’s an Oxford graduate, because they tell you. But Molly hadn’t told me so…
Molly Johnson-Jones
Not yet.
Elliot Moss
…actually, but now she’s blushing. It’s great. Carry on, sorry you were saying, not flexible only now.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah so we’ve moved, we captured the zeitgeist in terms of what was happening during the pandemic and then we started to see that people were trying to search for more than just flexibility and companies wanted to be discovered for more than just flexibility. So when we look at what people really care about in their next company, yes working environment assuming salary is fair, work environment is the most important in terms of is their location flexibility, hours flexibility but very, very close behind is culture and then representation and then things like award and recognition, progression etcetera so there’s this sort of drop down list and it does vary in terms of priorities between generations like interestingly the over 50s care significantly more about the mission of the company and feeling aligned to that.
Elliot Moss
Over 50s?
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Interesting I thought it was the other way round.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah so…
Elliot Moss
Old people like me we don’t care about things as it happens. I, I always say this to people when I started work in 1993 actually, the year that you were born Molly, September 1993 with a 9.16, I was interested in the mission, I bought the story.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yep.
Elliot Moss
So anyone that says people of that age, i.e. my age aren’t interested in it being a, what’s the North Star and is it a nice place, is just talking rubbish.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah. I think um, there’s a harsh sort of view of the different generations from other generations because you’re not in them, you are sort of onto them in a way whereas actually the two groups of people that are most similar in terms of their working preferences are over 50s and under 25s.
Elliot Moss
That’s why I like my children. I knew there was a reason beyond, I knew there was a reason, we’re actually connected. That’s going to be good when I next see them, I’m going to start talking about that. Um and in terms of you, so actually although it’s moved away from flexibility you’re ridiculously harsh treatment by the company that was then employing you.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yep.
Elliot Moss
Lead you to this and you were basically kind of kicked out unceremoniously. If you can go back, how was that, how did that feel at the time? What did that mean to you as a human?
Molly Johnson-Jones
Oh I went, I went outside and sat on a bench and cried um, so I obviously wasn’t, it was a horrible feeling um but when I look back on it I think it’s one of the best things that could have happened. I was really miserable trying to get into an office every day when I effectively couldn’t walk once a week, it’s incredibly painful, I was exhausted, I was sleeping about four hours a night um and I was just getting worse and worse, it was spiralling so I think in many ways you know, people say things happen for a reason and I think that really did and it meant that I was able to gain control of my health, work in a way that meant that if I felt like I was getting sick I was able to prioritise sleep and exercise in getting better rather than being unable to manage anything apart from my work.
Elliot Moss
Stay with me for much more, it’s Molly Johnson-Jones, she’ll be back in a couple of minutes. Right now though, we’re going to hear a taster from the Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions, they can be found on all of the major podcast platforms. Mishcon de Reya’s Emily Knight talks to Charlotte Yong, a fund manager at Troy Asset Management, financial services that might be, about women in investment and how firms can actively encourage diversity when recruiting.
You can enjoy all our former Business Shapers on the Jazz Shapers podcast, there are almost 500 just in case you didn’t know and you can hear this very programme again if you pop ‘Jazz Shapers’ into your podcast platform of choice. My guest today is Molly Johnson-Jones, CEO and co-founder of Flexa, a platform connecting job seekers with companies offering flexible work environments but actually companies that are good and that’s what I have learnt just now. Out of the fire into the frying pan or whatever the phrase is, I never get my phrase, I always feel like English….
Molly Johnson-Jones
Other way round.
Elliot Moss
…other way round out of the frying pan into the fire, good thank you. Molly you’re good at this you see, you should be doing what I am doing. What I meant by my awkward metaphor was that you chose to go from a very difficult employee working environment, you chose to set your own business up. Not the most obvious thing to do if you want you know, a bit of space and a bit of freedom. Every found that’s ever sat here talking to me doesn’t say, ‘oh yeah I’ve got very little to do’. They are not 24/7, they’re 48/7, they just never stop. What appealed to you at the time about that?
Molly Johnson-Jones
To be honest starting the business was slightly accidental um that sounds a bit flippant but when I left investment banking and then I worked for another couple of companies before we had the idea for Flexa and I always get all the glory for the idea of Flexa. It wasn’t actually my idea, it was my husband, Maurice’s, I just became, because there was a story behind it and obviously people can relate to it sort of happier being the face and talking about this rather than him, he’s very much operational keeping everything moving um but during those kind of roles that I had after investment banking I managed to find like increasing levels of flexibility and I started to understand what I needed to make me thrive but that job hunting process of finding those different roles was horrific and I remember Maurice and I sitting down, we were in the pub having a pint of cider and um, I’m from the West Country so, cider is very important to me.
Elliot Moss
I haven’t offered you cider, Stu and I have only offered you water. Next time cider.
Molly Johnson-Jones
It’s a bit early even for me on the cider. Um, we were sitting down and Maurice was thinking about leaving his role and we were having a conversation about how broken the job hunting process was when it came to transparency and everything that Glassdoor was trying to be wasn’t really cutting it and we thought we could improve on that.
Elliot Moss
What year was that if you remember?
Molly Johnson-Jones
That was early 2019.
Elliot Moss
Okay.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah May or June 2019 and we started to think about the fact that actually this was a really good idea and I remember Maurice then did leave his job he’d been working for five years for that company and got to quite a senior role and he was like, I just want a bit of a break. So he quit and I bought him a whiteboard one day, came home with a big whiteboard and said, I think you’ve got a really good idea and I think you should go for it.
Elliot Moss
Romance is not dead Molly.
Molly Johnson-Jones
A whiteboard.
Elliot Moss
Here’s your whiteboard. That’s great.
Molly Johnson-Jones
We’ve still got it on our wall by the way.
Elliot Moss
Strong marriage, strong marriage. They, not only is she saying it’s his idea, maybe it was but she bought him a whiteboard.
Molly Johnson-Jones
And then…
Elliot Moss
It just doesn’t get any better than that.
Molly Johnson-Jones
No true romance there. And um, we were then talking it through and me being me, I got really excited and wanted to get involved in it and…
Elliot Moss
And is that a me being me thing. What’s that about you wanting to get involved, why?
Molly Johnson-Jones
I just, I don’t know I just liked being involved in things that other people are enthusiastic about. I think it’s a really nice thing, I don’t know, it makes me happy.
Elliot Moss
So you, so you basically the two of you went, we can do this?
Molly Johnson-Jones
Well, we thought it was a good idea and then we realised that we absolutely could not build it because we had no technical ability whatsoever um and that’s where we started to look for a CTO and third co-founder. We put up like a little advert on Angel List and found Tim who is the best CTO we ever could have found. He’s absolutely incredible um and has built Flexa very, very much from scratch, very quickly.
Elliot Moss
But that, that question about you went from this kind of I need more space and, and maybe it was just about physical location rather than the actual time you work to then being an entrepreneur, that little moment although it was accidental, does that now looking back feel like a natural thing for Molly to do?
Molly Johnson-Jones
It felt really mad at the time and I don’t think when we decided to find Tim and build a website, again that sounds a bit silly. When we decided to find Tim and build the website we hadn’t committed fully to being entrepreneurs at that point, like for us I was still working, I’d gone down to four days a week to do kind of Friday, Saturday, Sunday on Flexa and Tim was on an earn out because he told his previous company and Maurice was contracting so we all had a bit of flexibility to be able to dedicate some time to it so we spent you know, a few days a week on it and all of a sudden it started to snowball and like the point at which we saw genuine traction was I think the point at which we committed to being entrepreneurs but it felt much less risky than just suddenly going hey I want to start a business I think and use all my savings and just go into it. We needed, all three of us needed proof from early stage traction that this was the right thing to do and that’s when we went all in.
Elliot Moss
Proof and the wonderful nature of iteration. You are now five years into this journey, you’ve raised some money, easy raising money right?
Molly Johnson-Jones
I wish.
Elliot Moss
What’s been the problem?
Molly Johnson-Jones
I think the nature of raising money is, is inherently very difficult right? You’re asking, whether it’s an individual’s money or a fund’s money you are saying hey take a bet on me and put loads and loads of money behind it, it’s fundamentally gambling. But you are trying to get somebody to give you an enormous amount of it you know, we’ve raised almost 3.5 million I think over, over five years.
Elliot Moss
That’s a significant amount.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah and when it’s an individual’s money you know, whether it’s 10k, 50k or its funds of million like I am sure it all feels the same when you are parting with it so there has, there are so many different elements like it is all sales but it is also hugely relationship building and I think a lot of it is about the emotion that you really get someone to feel when you’re in that room you know, you want them to be excited about being on that journey with you.
Elliot Moss
How do you do that?
Molly Johnson-Jones
I actually find that really hard and it is something that I’ve had to learn. I think I’m, I tend towards being a bit more serious and a bit more factual and no nonsense so…
Elliot Moss
You strike me as a pretty you know, if the data’s not there, I don’t think you’re going to win the argument I mean, because that’s okay because that’s right, start with the substance.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
But is that seriousness because, is that a gender thing for you, is that a, I mean where does that come from that you were a serious person about that versus…
Molly Johnson-Jones
I think it’s just my personality and like you know, all of the roles that I’ve done like are relatively analytical and I don’t think I am a very fluffy person um…
Elliot Moss
Quote of the day.
Molly Johnson-Jones
…so I think that that enthusiasm and that real um infectious energy that people want to feel when they’ve been pitched to has been something that I’ve struggled to generate but interestingly the people where I have had that success with have been female investors so we’ve got the majority of our capital is external capital is held by women at Flexa which is really, really unusual for a start-up and I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about that because it’s not just that we’ve gone out to female focused VCs, we haven’t, we’ve very much kind of done an even spread and naturally you are more likely to be given a chance with a female run VC or Angels because you’re a woman and there is a lot more focus from that so that is obviously one factor but then I do think that female founders find it easier to be believed by female investors because there’s this natural understanding that women can be good at these things whereas I think there’s an enormous amount of bias within the industry that the traits of you know, huge risk taking, big arrogance and confidence that’s like nothing’s going to stop me attitude is what you need to build a business successfully and if you’re not outwardly portraying those things then you are a less believable founder and I think that’s something that I’ve really struggled with is trying to embody what are seen as typically very male characteristics in pitching in order to get that attention and I think that’s what you have to do with a lot of traditional VCs so it has been a fascinating learning journey and the chameleon on the Jazz FM logo has just made me think like you kind of have to be a chameleon in different situations and read and understand what different investors want from you.
Elliot Moss
Although at the core your integrity is really important and if you are the person this substantive, me personally I prefer that. I never trust anyone like me. I mean, you talk about fluffy, I like someone who says no no this is it and they are not trying to beguile me and sell me the big sell. I like the data.
Molly Johnson-Jones
But that doesn’t get you excited and doesn’t go…
Elliot Moss
No, but it might work for the person that’s got a hundred million pounds that wants to invest in you because they go, this Molly, Molly really knows and these numbers are going up and then just on the, on top of that, Maurice obviously is your husband…
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
…I imagine people come with their own prejudices about what that means, husband and wife team. How have you managed that?
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Apart from not how have you managed your marriage because it sounds very good with whiteboards and all the other, all the other amazing romantic things that happen but the serious point is, how do they look at that relationship?
Molly Johnson-Jones
Early in our fundraising days, so when we were doing like pre-seed rounds and we did a bridge round as well, people viewed it as much more of a risk and I don’t know whether that’s because we were a riskier business at that point because you are very, very early, you’ve very limited traction and you don’t have very much proof or whether it’s because we are now married. Maybe people see marriage as like well you’re stuck so it’s not a risk to us, one of you can’t just walk away easily but most recently the conversation hasn’t come up at all in terms of the fact that we are married co-founders. Early days we wouldn’t tell people until they were genuinely interested because we’d had so many times where people were like ‘oh no we’ll never invest in couple co-founders it’s just not something we ever do we see it as too high risk’ and I found that fascinating. So we chose to build a relationship with those people and then go by the way, we’ve got something to tell you, we’re in a relationship um…
Elliot Moss
And we give each other really romantic gifts like whiteboards.
Molly Johnson-Jones
But you get so much out of a couple co-founder like that.
Elliot Moss
Of course you do, I mean there’s trust right?
Molly Johnson-Jones
There’s trust.
Elliot Moss
There’s care, you understand each other intimately, you’re working hard, there’s no kind of, there’s a shared mission. I mean all those things which are obvious in any strong relationship which is what the irony is, people say businesses are like families and here you are, you’re a family Molly.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Yeah. The businesses are like family’s thing I think is such a grim term. You’re not going to sack your brother are you like.
Elliot Moss
Well actually it gets quite tricky when you have to. Stay with me for my final chat with my guest today, Molly Johnson-Jones and we’ve got some wonderful Jacob Collier for you too, that’s in just a moment, don’t go anywhere.
Here on Jazz Shapers, Molly Johnson-Jones is with me for just for a few more minutes, she’s one of the co-founders of Flexa and they I think, I think looking at it you are kind of revolutionising the way that people go and find jobs and as you said, the source of truth and all that. Your own passions and you talked about your own natural pre-disposition which is to be analytical and to call it the way it is and you know, you are a direct person in a very, in a very endearing I think and honest way because some people just you can’t tell what they are thinking. With you it is pretty clear what you are thinking and we’ve only just met Molly. Um, what about those passions, I know you are a very keen cook/chef? I am sure you have other things that really float your boat. How, how do you funnel the passions into what you are doing now? Do you have time?
Molly Johnson-Jones
It’s a struggle to get that right balance all the time and I think what I’ve learnt, so when we started Flexa we sort of tried to separate work and life a little bit because everyone tells you that that’s such an important thing to do and you know you need time where you are not thinking about work or where you are fully switched off. I actually find that much more stressful, I am much more a fan of being online from like 8.00 in the morning until 11.30 at night and interspersing cooking a really nice meal or going to the gym because then I feel like you are constantly aware but you are not always, your brain’s not constantly at like mass capacity, like highest capacity working. So that’s the way that I found it best to try to maintain a semblance of what I’ll call work life integration and Maurice is the same like when we go on holiday we are not fully off line. I find it much more stressful to be fully off line for a week, we only did that for our honeymoon once and it was hell coming back um so when we are on holiday like we are still aware of emails and we’re still aware of slack other people are picking up the bulk of the work but if there’s anything urgent like I spent about an hour working every day and that for me means that I can still enjoy all of the things that I love doing like travelling, cooking, going to the gym, going to the pub and drinking cider and um…
Elliot Moss
There’s a theme here Molly.
Molly Johnson-Jones
…yeah you can take the girl out the West Country… um and it means then that also it doesn’t affect my productivity and I can make sure that I handle my stress in a way that works best for me which is being constantly aware of what’s going on.
Elliot Moss
And is the challenge, the future challenge of the business bigger than the future challenge of Molly managing that balance and if that is true, what is the big challenge in the business?
Molly Johnson-Jones
I think for…
Elliot Moss
I mean, do you worry about your own…
Molly Johnson-Jones
Sanity?
Elliot Moss
Yeah. You look sane, you look very sane but do you think about that or because it’s important to be kind to yourself you know, you are obviously a high functioning individual here, you’re very young um and not said in a patronising way at all, the opposite it’s like sheer adulation, you’ve just turned 31 or whatever it is and here you are running your own business, funded, I mean it is extraordinary but are you kind to yourself?
Molly Johnson-Jones
I am aware that I think the way of running a start-up isn’t sustainable, you can’t be in that constant giving 100% all the time forever but I think that’s naturally a challenge that every start-up goes through right, you have to go from start-up to scale up, you have to find those levers that work and you have to get to the point where me as an individual you know, being the CEO of the company cannot be the only person that can drive growth so every, I think every start-up goes through that challenge of moving from founder lead growth away to actually like scalable growth levers.
Elliot Moss
But you’re okay with that?
Molly Johnson-Jones
I’m okay with that for now.
Elliot Moss
Okay but you’ve got to keep an eye on it?
Molly Johnson-Jones
I’ve got to keep an eye on it exactly um but we’re learning you know, every, every start-up…
Elliot Moss
Of course.
Molly Johnson-Jones
…the rate of learning is absolutely huge, its exponential so we’re finding these growth levers, we’re working out where we can, I can pull myself away from things because I’m actually not having a particularly big impact and that was what makes, will make the business sustainable for me.
Elliot Moss
And a one sentence future challenge, biggest challenge for Flexa? What’s the thing you’ve got to overcome?
Molly Johnson-Jones
That’s a very good question. The biggest challenge will be making sure that every company feels like they have to be seen on Flexa because it’s the first place that every individual starts their job search.
Elliot Moss
Very good answer. It’s been great chatting to you, thank you for your directness and your honesty.
Molly Johnson-Jones
Thank you.
Elliot Moss
And, and lots of cider coming up but not this minute. Just before I let you go, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
Molly Johnson-Jones
My song choice is Let’s Stay Together by Al Green which was Maurice and my first dance song.
Elliot Moss
Here it is just for you. Al Green, Let’s Stay Together the brilliant song choice of my Business Shaper today, Molly Johnson-Jones. She talked about the enthusiasm that she has for other people’s ideas and the fact that she got right behind Maurice’s idea for the business – I really loved that. The source of truth that she has tried to create, ‘I genuinely believe this Flexa thing is going to revolutionise the way that people find jobs’ and the importance of culture and reward and recognition and progress, all those thing that are important to all of us as individuals and finally the incredibly important point she made about fundraising and that still today in 2024, female founders find it easier to raise money from female investors. That cannot be right. That’s it from Jazz Shapers and me, have a lovely weekend.
We hope you enjoyed that edition of Jazz Shapers. You’ll find hundreds more guests available for you to listen to in our archive, to find out more just search Jazz Shapers in iTunes or your favourite podcast platform or head over to mishcon.com/jazzshapers.