Welcome to the Jazz Shapers Podcast from Mishcon de Reya. What you are about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM however the music has been cut due to rights issues.
Elliot Moss
Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today here on Jazz Shapers is Alex Bomberg, Founder of International Intelligence Limited, the security and intelligence company. With his parents fostering many children, Alex grew up in a busy house full of changing faces. Following in his elder brother, Tim’s footsteps, Alex joined the British Army in 1991 as a private soldier in the Gloucestershire Regiment and was deployed three years later to Bosnia as part of the UN’s protection force. After becoming an aid to members of the British Royal Family at Kensington Palace, then re-joining his regiment in Kuwait and the Falkland Islands, Alex left the Army in 1997 and began working in the security industry. He founded International Intelligence Limited in 2002, specialising in counter espionage, royalty protection and the psychology of security and protection and later split the expanding company into a group structure under Intelligent UK Holdings Limited – what a catchy name.
Great to have you here. Espionage, counter-terrorism, James Bond, all these things. Is it you, are you James Bond, is your life really like that?
Alex Bomberg
Most definitely not, no, no and actually you know, nobody wants to talk about espionage, nobody wants to talk about security, not really. It’s a bit of a dirty word in the business world. We all talk about risk now and resilience. That’s the buzz words really.
Elliot Moss
Mm, euphemisms.
Alex Bomberg
Certainly that yeah.
Elliot Moss
When you were a kid did you want to be in the Army, was that a thing?
Alex Bomberg
Yeah, well actually I wanted to ski, that was my first real passion you know, I was a young man, my brother skied, he was in the British Team for cross country and biathlon. I was a downhill skier. As a young, young person I worked at Gloucester Ski Centre.
Elliot Moss
I remember Martin Bell?
Alex Bomberg
Yep, he was around in the 80’s yeah.
Elliot Moss
That’s right.
Alex Bomberg
The early 90’s.
Elliot Moss
Which would have been as you were growing up you would have…
Alex Bomberg
And his brother, Graham.
Elliot Moss
Graham that’s right. Famous British skiers that were not really world class.
Alex Bomberg
They were…
Elliot Moss
They weren’t bad.
Alex Bomberg
…they were pretty good, you can’t really knock, you can’t really knock Great Britain for, for producing skiers of that level.
Elliot Moss
Yeah well I was going to say without the facilities it’s kind of…
Alex Bomberg
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
…difficult isn’t it.
Alex Bomberg
Exactly that.
Elliot Moss
It’s a very different thing.
Alex Bomberg
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
So, so when you were younger though was the skiing about activity, was the skiing about getting out and about. Were you a very physical person?
Alex Bomberg
No, actually the skiing was because I was expelled from school at 15 so they had to get me to do something so they put me for work experience at Gloucester Ski Centre and that taught me you know, that taught me a set of values that you’d never ever learn at school really you know.
Elliot Moss
Like?
Alex Bomberg
I think team work and, and that actually business and being in a business environment even though you know, a Ski Centre, something like a leisure centre it’s not the same as being at school and there is a certain set of behaviours and a certain thing, you know that is expected of you that you know, as a young, as a young person you just don’t learn in a school environment and, and education’s not for everybody. It’s only, it’s only in the last 10 years that I’ve come back to education you know, and started actually really wanting to learn so you know, it’s not, school’s not for everybody. Luckily there are paths for, for young people that, that just don’t do education very well.
Elliot Moss
When you were younger and you, obviously everyone’s probably thinking well why did you get expelled Alex, was it anything to do with home life?
Alex Bomberg
Yeah I think so. I think it was quite a, I wouldn’t say a traumatic, my, my parents fostered you know for 30 odd years so it was, it was not a normal environment to grow up in.
Elliot Moss
And how many kids at any one time would they have?
Alex Bomberg
Um, normally around about three. However, you know Social Services could turn up on a Friday night and plant kids on my mother’s doorstep and we would take them you know, my mum and dad would take those kids. They were award winning foster parents and my mother was on the National Board of Fostering as an advisor for quite a few years and did lots of training yeah and they eventually you know gave up and retired. But I think that had a lot to do with who I am today I think really and the fact that certainly on the, forgetting the espionage side of my work but on the protection side of work, you know, being a protector, wanting to save people and look after people I think a lot, a lot comes from that.
Elliot Moss
How many kids roughly were fostered by your mum and dad?
Alex Bomberg
I think well over a 100 over the 30 years. Some were there for a couple of days, some one night but some long term.
Elliot Moss
So from what age Alex were you, were they fostering? All, all your life?
Alex Bomberg
Err, all my life yeah absolutely. I was, I was brought up into it you know, they started fostering in the early 70’s. Before that they both, they met actually near Brighton at a place called Bolney, the school that Daley Thompson went to.
Elliot Moss
Okay.
Alex Bomberg
And they moved from there to Gloucestershire and were fostering almost straight away yeah.
Elliot Moss
And then connecting that with you being expelled, what was going on for you at that time when I said was it related to the movement, not chaos but the kind of in and outs all the time and diff… you know kids that needed looking after, protecting to use your word. What precipitated you behaving badly at school?
Alex Bomberg
Um, I think I just didn’t feel like I belonged and I think, I think I needed something like a work environment to be in, something with a different style of discipline. You know, when you’re young as well you want to play up to your, to other kids around you, you know your peer group, it’s you know, that sort of behaviour, same as with the Army you know, immaturity is, is not accepted so you learn, you learn in a different way you know and it’s good because as I was saying, not everyone’s, not everyone’s geared up for education you know. I never really started, I actually started reading properly when I was in the Falkland Islands on a, I was in a form of tour down there in the Army and I was picking up books on all sorts of things. I even remember reading a book on nuclear fusion, I mean, that’s not, that’s not a kid that’s been expelled from school at the age of 15. You know and I, I started becoming an avid reader at that point but, but really in my later life I’ve, I’ve really got into learning more about academic theories of…
Elliot Moss
And you lecture on psychology don’t you?
Alex Bomberg
…I lecture on…
Elliot Moss
There’s a college of you know, as security and things like that. But the move into the Army, you followed your brother and a lot of people do kind of look up to their older sibling. Obviously again the relationship between the Army and then what you’ve gone to do is pretty easy to see. What did the Army teach you?
Alex Bomberg
Firstly discipline which was you know, it’s lacking in a lot of people’s lives even today. Being a soldier one of the first things you learn, it doesn’t matter what regiment you’re in you know, one of the first things you learn is turning up on time. You are always there five minutes before, ten minutes before. That’s on time, that’s not early. If you are thirty minutes before, that’s early but it’s okay to do that and I think you know, that and learning how to dress yourself properly and what is and what isn’t acceptable you know, different environments with, with the military but you can become I think within the military if you spend too long there, again you can become very insular because it’s, it’s a very different environment again than a work environment.
Elliot Moss
But you saw things right, I mean people, people would die around you, I mean there’s… I’m not saying literally in front of you but I imagine there’s been a lot of stuff that happened that’s also affected you?
Alex Bomberg
I didn’t really see any action per se, my only proper service really was in Bosnia and that was very frustrating really for my regiment, we lost, we lost a few guys in Bosnia through road accidents and how that was dealt with politically and by the military was quite upsetting. So I’ve never really you know, I’ve never seen any action. I’ve got lots of friends who served in Iraq and Afghanistan after I left who you know, they saw real action and you know for me, my, my military service I wasn’t a very good soldier per se. It wasn’t really for me.
Elliot Moss
In what sense wasn’t it for you?
Alex Bomberg
I was a bit disillusioned so when I joined the Army I loved training, I really loved being in training but when I joined my battalion we were doing a role called Spearhead so you’re on 24 hours’ notice to move, you have to be packed with your equipment ready and things like that but that really wasn’t you know, it was a lot of waiting around and that’s what frustrated me with, with the Army. There’s a lot of, a lot of waiting around which wasn’t, the time wasn’t necessarily filled with good stuff, it was you know, you’d be sat on your bed for hours on end not doing weapons training and not doing any physical exercise and that, that, I really you know, that wasn’t for me, I needed to be kept busy so I mean I ended up in roles like I worked in the Officer’s Mess, I worked as a CO’s driver, worked in…
Elliot Moss
CO – Commanding Officer?
Alex Bomberg
Commanding Officer yeah, was the Commanding Officer’s driver you know, different roles and that’s how, actually that’s how I ended up working at Kensington Palace you know, there’s lots of different roles in, in an infantry battalion that’s not necessarily front line but you know, certainly you get deployed front line anyway but you know, there’s lots of roles, different roles other than being an infantryman which I actually quite enjoyed.
Elliot Moss
Do you think though just, and I want to talk obviously after we’ve heard from Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions, I want to talk about how you got into the world of business and how that segwayed and what happened when you left the Army. But do you think that sense of importance of service and importance of protection even if the experience itself wasn’t what you wanted it to be and it was, as you said, there was lots of, lots of down time. Was that why you went in there? Was that what was beyond following your brother?
Alex Bomberg
Yeah, in my family we were, I was brought up you know, in a very sort of conservative environment politically but also there was lots of hon… you know I look at the Army and I look at the Forces, you are serving your country and I have got a big thing about the Royal Family and the country. Great Britain’s you know, it’s, it’s such a wonderful place in respect of our traditions and the tradition of service and putting yourself last really, the country first. That, that’s important and I think that that’s something that I always wanted as a child when I looked at soldiers and looked at what my brother was doing and his friends.
Elliot Moss
And what your parents were doing with the fostering as well of course, putting themselves behind the kids that they were bringing into care. Much more is going to come up from my guest, Alex Bomberg in a couple of minutes. Right now as I promised we are going to hear a taster from the Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions which can be found on all the major podcast platforms. Mishcon de Reya’s Joe Hancock, Head of the Cyber Team and Katie Ling talk about current trends in cyber fraud and what individuals and companies need to do to protect themselves.
You can enjoy all our former Business Shapers, I think there’s over 500 of them now, on the Jazz Shapers podcast and you can hear this very programme again if you pop the words ‘Jazz Shapers’ into your favourite podcast platform. My guest today is Alex Bomberg, Founder of International Intelligence Limited, the security and intelligence company and as with anything the person behind it is often connected inextricably to the very thing that they are trying to do which is to protect and to serve and it is true in your case as well. When anyone leaves the Army, people always say it’s like, it’s like leaving politics, it’s like it’s a big deal, it’s a major movement, a shift in your life. I understand that there was, not for a few years, you discovered a, you call him an MI6 Officer, you call him Jeremy, who knows if Jeremy is his real name and there is a little wry smile from Alex, we don’t know but it doesn’t matter. How do you, how do you have support at these critical moments, who has been there, what have they given you Alex that has enabled you to then become the man and the leader that you are?
Alex Bomberg
I’ve been lucky because I think being in an age pre-internet, I was around at times where it was easy to learn the trade. I was lucky that I was given opportunities and, and being around the right people really helped you know. My brother left the Army and he ended up working in this world and I was you know, given opportunities that I might not have been given had it not been for him so that was quite lucky for me.
Elliot Moss
But emotionally, what were they, what did a Jeremy we will call him, give you do you think at that time? You said quite insightfully you needed the structure of something whether it was the ski school, whether it was the Army, there’s kind of a bit of discipline that Alex needs around him to be the best version of himself. What happens when you are in the big wide world? Is that what that anchor does, that Jeremy type person does for you?
Alex Bomberg
Yeah I mean you really look at these individuals as a young person, an early 20 something, mid-20’s something, you look at these people who have been in the intelligence service or the special forces and you know, I wasn’t, I wasn’t cut out for that however you know, wow what a world these people have seen, the things, you know, the things that they have done they can’t really talk about. People have as you know, people who have been in that role really don’t talk about it very often and being able to learn some of the trade craft you know, surveillance, going through bins, learning how to do a pattern of life study on a target and…
Elliot Moss
What’s, what’s a pattern of life study in a few words?
Alex Bomberg
So a pattern of life study is looking at, looking at an individual, looking at, looking at their real life so they might be in a mid-level accountancy position however they might be driving around in a, in a very expensive Porsche.
Elliot Moss
So something that doesn’t stack?
Alex Bomberg
Exactly that yeah, yeah or…
Elliot Moss
Oh I’ve got some people we could discuss this after, we can do some pattern of life analysis, that doesn’t quite work but you know what, it’s funny isn’t it, the human condition we know when there’s something called dissonance, we know when there’s something not quite right, we don’t always know what it is but that’s obvious I mean you’re driving around in a Porsche or you know, you’re doing something that’s totally not connected to your salary, that’s an easy one but there must be, must be more subtle ones as well. The movement into setting up your own thing, many people leave the Army and they go and work as a civvie and they do what they do, you didn’t. Where was that from? What was, where did that desire to actually be your own boss as it were?
Alex Bomberg
I think from the moment I left the Army I always wanted to work for myself. I wanted, originally I wanted to own a restaurant and work in catering you know, hotel and catering. I actually did try that for a short period of time but I was very disillusioned with it and wanted something more exciting. Again, you know, being from a military background, it’s the same with people that leave the Police, security is something that you can just fall into quite easily, there are lots of transferable skills there.
Elliot Moss
But interesting your own thing versus the structures that you sought, that’s slightly contradictory.
Alex Bomberg
Yeah I think, I think unemployable I think they call it.
Elliot Moss
Was that what it was?
Alex Bomberg
I think so yeah.
Elliot Moss
But to actually set that business up back in 2002, just over 23 years ago or so, must have been scary? Or did it just feel like that was your only option?
Alex Bomberg
Um, sometimes you’ve got to take a leap and I think it was, it was a little bit about that um, taking a leap. I am a risk taker, in my life I am a risk taker and I think you’ve got to be if you want to be successful you look at all the successful business people out there, measured risk of course which I’ve become more, more accustomed to learning about and practising but you’ve got to take risks to run a business. You can’t, you know you can’t run a business and just take the easy path all the time.
Elliot Moss
These last 20 years, a massive variety, different situations geographically, different situations from a pressure point of view, new stuff happening, cultural stuff that you have to adapt to, technology, huge amounts of change. How have you navigated all these different things?
Alex Bomberg
One of my, yes, one of my strongest points is that I always look to the future. I always look at the horizon, look what’s coming, look what the next trend is, what the next threat is and look globally as well. A lot of people only look as far as their front door or their county or their area of the UK or their geographical area. I look beyond that and horizon scanning is a, the biggest, the biggest thing. I mean the next biggest threat coming is AI and if you are not, if you run a business and you are not in tune with it, or it’s not on your radar that’s going to be a big problem. I was lecturing in Dublin a few months ago and I was asked what you know, what is the next big, huge security concern and I think it’s social engineering mixed with artificial intelligence.
Elliot Moss
And what is social engineering?
Alex Bomberg
So social engineering is using psychology, using human psychology to get information out of people. Get people to do what you want them to do and when you, when you combine that with artificial intelligence you can commit you know, a lot of fraud and very easily and it’s already happening now. There’s already been a huge fraud in Asia where somebody was pretending to be, they got an IA, sorry an AI.
Elliot Moss
AI.
Alex Bomberg
AI system to, to work with them and they committed a huge, huge fraud on a company.
Elliot Moss
So how do you, as a, you’re not a technologist but obviously technology is a big part. How do you ensure that you and your businesses not only are able to keep up but also able to kind of move as things move in new directions because that’s tricky while there’s the stuff of serving clients, there’s the stuff in front of you, there’s the things to do?
Alex Bomberg
Yeah so, so I have got two roles really; so my main role is obviously run companies, run my companies but also I advise clients and work with clients so you know, every client we work with is different, they’ve got different cultures that they are working in, they might be, they might be in Asia, they might be in the Middle East so with what I do, my role I’ve got to combine you know, running a company with you know, and doing all the PR and everything else but with you know, finding out what is the next thing but luckily you know, connected into institutes that I am a member of or fellow of, I learn all the time.
Elliot Moss
I was going to say that’s bringing a full circle back to the learning point which is obviously as you said, something as an adult which you love to do which is lucky because if you weren’t doing that you wouldn’t be keeping on top of things. Stay with me for my final chat with my guest today, it’s Alex Bomberg. We’ve also got some music from Marcus Miller, that’s in just a moment, don’t go anywhere.
Alex Bomberg is my Business Shaper just for a few more minutes. We talked about all the areas that you’ve learnt about, all the areas that you’re already deeply interested in. We talked about the Meta theme of artificial intelligence briefly. There’s obviously at the moment in the world a lot of insecurity, there’s huge capability to commit fraud, as you said through technology and through artificial intelligence, there’s a lot of geopolitical unrest. You must be a busy person. All the experience you had Alex, how does it prepare you for the next generation of problem? How does it prepare you for the new form of espionage because it’s one thing seeing it coming and there’s another thing actually being able to help your clients.
Alex Bomberg
Yeah so, so you’ve got to remember with, with everything it all boils down people. Security is all about people, places and technology but people are the weakest link in all of that so even, even with artificial intelligence things have got to be done by people and that’s where you start. We go into organisations and we, we try and help them build their security culture and as I said at the start of this, people don’t want to talk about security, they certainly don’t want to talk about espionage. No one has got a problem until they’ve got one so to actually go and work with a company and look at the culture of how, how you can actually add value with security, I’m a great believer that security should be part of everybody’s job. It shouldn’t be an add-on. It should be a part of what they already do as their everyday process so it’s very, very difficult to, to look ahead and think, can you completely take people out of, out of it and you can’t. We’re not going to all of a sudden in 20 years everyone’s not going to be retired. People are still going to need to be part of the process.
Elliot Moss
And there’s a very practical part of it as well which of course when you are providing bodyguards, that’s human beings standing next to other human beings. I imagine that’s still, that’s still a big part of your business.
Alex Bomberg
It’s a huge part of our business and that’s got to be right, when you are picking bodyguards to work with somebody it’s got to be the right person, it’s got to be the right fit so that’s a very, very personal service and that is all about, that’s all about people.
Elliot Moss
Do you teach people about the ability to be culturally sensitive because again the different countries you’ve lived and worked in, the different things that you see, you will naturally pick up how to handle situations and to diffuse and to manage appropriately. You know, have you, have you managed to convey that, is that a big part of what you do, is it important?
Alex Bomberg
It is, culture is a huge thing you know, the culture here in Europe compared to the Middle East compared to Asia, very, very different and certainly with, with security and espionage, those cultures do come into huge play you know, if I went to Asia and I asked somebody who, a policeman that’s doing royalty protection or a receptionist some information because they come from a culture where they, they want to please everybody and, and they, they’re driven to do that, they are more likely to give me information that perhaps they shouldn’t be so you know, geographical cultures are, it’s a, it’s a huge thing and obviously every company and organisation have got their own internal culture of, of what is acceptable and how they perceive security and threat so it, it’s, culture is a huge thing.
Elliot Moss
But I imagine there’s one thing which wherever you are in the world it’s important and that’s your mentality, that’s the calmness that you bring whatever and is that something again that you are aware of in yourself. Are you intentionally calm Alex or are you naturally calm?
Alex Bomberg
I try and be calm.
Elliot Moss
Do you know what I mean though, is there the raging ex-rugby playing, Army touting man inside Alex or is actually, that’s just not you?
Alex Bomberg
It’s, it’s there but you’ve got to remember a lot of the times I am dealing with clients who are in crisis so you know, they might want their hands holding in the back of a car physically because they’ve just been through something traumatic or they may be somebody who’s had a bad experience with security, their last experience wasn’t good so we’ve got to work with that bias. So you’ve got, you’ve got to know who you, who you are working with and you’ve got to, you’ve got to provide them with an assurance that they are working with the right people. Although I’m running companies, it’s still a very personal business. People phone up and they want to speak to me.
Elliot Moss
Of course.
Alex Bomberg
And they want to meet me, and they want, they want my knowledge.
Elliot Moss
Just before I ask you your song choice, just going all the way back to your mum and dad and all those kids that they brilliantly fostered, I imagine you saw them doing exactly what you just described a lot with kids that had, had huge traumas which kids, kids literally need their, their hands held, kids that needed to be supported. Do you think about that a lot? Does that, does that come out or is it something so deep back in your memory that it’s just you know, not that relevant?
Alex Bomberg
I think I probably do but I think it’s, it’s something that I do naturally because of that because you’re, if you’re conditioned to do that it’s not necessarily, so sometimes it might come out like chivalry you know, I might be holding a door for somebody or helping somebody across the road. It’s I guess, if you’ve just been brought up that way maybe kids today are not brought up that way but I, it’s how I was brought up so I guess yeah, it comes out right because that’s just what, that’s just part of me, it’s what you do.
Elliot Moss
It’s been great chatting to you Alex, thank you. Thank you for being so open as well for a man in the world or espionage and counter terrorism and all sorts of other things you’ve been remarkably open in an appropriate way I quickly add before any client’s think that he said things he shouldn’t have said. He certainly hasn’t. Just before I let you disappear back into that world and it’s an intriguing world to all of us, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen?
Alex Bomberg
Well today I’ve chosen Dizzy Gillespie, On the Sunny Side of the Street and the reason why is because there’s always a sunny side of the street. You might not think it but you might not even be on it, it might be the other side but there is always a sunny side of the street.
Elliot Moss
Dizzy Gillespie with On the Sunny Side of the Street, the song choice of my Business Shaper today, Alex Bomberg. He talked about the honour of serving and that’s exactly what he’s done in the Army and since leaving the Army. He talked about the importance of discipline and structure, absolutely critical in this area but in fact applied in any area of business and finally he talked about protection and where it had come from in his family and how he applies it every day to the clients and the situations that they find themselves in. Great stuff. That’s it from me and Jazz Shapers, have a fabulous weekend.
We hope you enjoyed that edition of Jazz Shapers. You’ll find hundreds more guests available for you to listen to in our archive, to find out more just search Jazz Shapers in iTunes or your favourite podcast platform or head over to mishcon.com/jazzshapers.