Elliot Moss
Welcome to the Jazz Shapers Podcast from Mishcon de Reya. What you are about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM however the music has been cut due to rights issues.
Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today, I am very pleased to say, is George Bramble, Founder of Beco, a sustainable pet products company. Inspired by childhood holidays spent outdoors with his trusted dog companions and bolstered by a Degree in Geography and Environmental Sciences – great combination – George sought to challenge the impact people are making on the planet. With a dog’s carbon footprint potentially twice as big as a 4x4 car – I didn’t know that – George spotted a gap in the market for sustainable pet products. Knowing the value of simple offcuts from chopsticks, George used all his savings, £15,000 – I hope that’s right – sourced chopstick factories in China and launched Beco, and their first product, a bamboo dog bowl, in 2009. Aiming to create the highest quality pet products with the least possible impact on the environment, Beco is now a Certified B Corp company and their pet food recipes, toys and accessories can be found in more than forty countries.
George Bramble is my Business Shaper. He is the Founder of Beco and they make properly sustainable food and probably sustainable stuff for your pets and there’s lots of pets, George, rummaging around since Covid. Apparently, I have a fact here, you can tell me this is right, first one I’ll get wrong, 11% of all households got a new pet during Covid, and that’s according to the Pet Food Manufacturers Association, a fine association they are too.
George Bramble
Absolutely. Great to be on the show. Yeah, that sounds about right. Through Covid obviously, dog ownership went through the roof. You only need to walk around a park in London to see how many new dog owners there are and yeah, we’re very lucky in that sense and blessed to be in an industry that was pandemic-proof and frankly, the opposite, the industry has grown quite a bit since.
Elliot Moss
But you didn’t do it for that because you were involved in this industry way before there were pandemics and hopefully, you know, there won’t be any more but back in the day, did it seem like a logical thing to do for you, to set this up or was it a moment of madness, George, that you continue to regret every day of your life?
George Bramble
Well yeah, a bit of both I’d say. I mean, we’ve grown quite organically as a business, in that sense we’ve been a bit different to a sort of private equity backed, you know, start-up, we grew through bank loans and credit card debt and sort of grew slowly. When I set it up, it was back in 2008 and of course in the middle of another recession and you know as you mentioned earlier, I’d studied Geography and Environmental Sciences, I’d been brought up with pets and we were kind of looking for businesses that frankly were sort of recession proof and something I had a passion in and my then business partner, Toby, he was a product designer and we sort of, sort of what about pets? And that’s how we got into it and yeah, the industry has moved a lot in the last ten years. When we started, I remember going to Crufts with our bamboo pet bowls and I remember a lady coming up and picking up the bowl and looking at it and going “oh, it’s a really nice looking bowl, yeah, how much are they?”and as she was about to put it in her bag, I said, “oh and it’s made from bamboo, plant-based plastic so, you know, obviously reducing the use of petroleum plastic and you know it’s a more environmentally friendly option.” She looked at me and thought I was mad and said, “why would I want an environmentally friendly pet bowl?” and stormed off and I thought this is going to be an uphill battle and I’m pleased to say that over the last ten years, obviously consumer sentiment towards the environment has changed massively. We sort of talk about pre-Attenborough and post-Attenborough and you know, David Attenborough has had a massive impact on the way people think about things but I’m pleased to say that, yeah, we’re still going and still growing and that’s nearly twelve years on.
Elliot Moss
In your own words, when you first started this idea of an environmentally friendly approach to the world of pets, as you said it was not fashionable then, how did you describe the business to people? What did you say were doing?
George Bramble
I mean, we’ve always sort of described it the same way, which is, you know, we talk about striving for sustainability because you are on a journey, right. If you were in business, a sustainable business is a bit of an oxymoron but it’s a journey but to start with it was simply to make the best possible dog and cat products whilst causing as little harm to the environment and that kind of stays true today.
Elliot Moss
And your first job though had nothing to do with this. I read somewhere it was at Bacardi.
George Bramble
Absolutely.
Elliot Moss
Which is a business I knew well at that time, I was in advertising and they were a client.
George Bramble
Ah, fantastic.
Elliot Moss
So, incredibly different place but what did you learn there that was actually, and I don’t mean that you learn of lots of stuff, Bacardi’s a great company, he says quickly, what did you learn there that you could port across to the new business?
George Bramble
Well, I would say, I mean the reason I joined Bacardi and had a great time is, I’d just left University and trying to work out what I wanted to do. I sort of talked about maybe going into the Army, maybe going into finance and my father sort of, who was a surgeon, no experience in business, sort of sat down and said, “well I can’t really advise you on business but what do you want to do in the end?” I said, “run my own company” and he said, “well you’re probably better off going and working for a big FMCG brand and learning various skills” so, I started at Bacardi and learned a bit of sales, bit of trade marketing and it was really, really helpful.
Elliot Moss
An entrepreneurial as well, family owned Cuban business, I mean it’s not your standard multinational FMCG business.
George Bramble
Absolutely. Exactly, so, still private, pretty big in sort of our terms but not as big as a Diageo or something like that and what was great about that was I was given my own territory, selling to pubs and bars and I actually looked after Brighton and I was sort of given a car, a laptop and a phone and told to get on with it and…
Elliot Moss
You were like, this is fun. Is this work?
George Bramble
Exactly.
Elliot Moss
You went back to your father and said, Dad, good advice.
George Bramble
Exactly. Well, the best part was when I managed to get Southwest London because that’s where I lived and we were actively encouraged to go out and spend time in the bars at weekends and expense drinks, so that was, that was good fun. But yeah, I learned, I learned a lot there. I guess I learned you know how some of the best brands present themselves and build brand fans and loyalty, I mean I was working for brands like Jack Daniels, I mean, you know, the best at creating a brand, Bombay Sapphire, Grey Goose Vodka, so, and of course Bacardi. And also just sort of I ran my territory and it was selling, you know, I was selling essentially door-to-door and if you’re starting your own business, you need to be able to sell, so that was very helpful. But I think actually after a couple of years I realised I wanted to do my own, I knew I wanted to do my own thing and I wanted to do it quickly. The big corporate world probably wasn’t right for me, I didn’t fancy sort of being on that corporate ladder for twenty or thirty years so, actually, when I took the jump to Beco, I probably learned more about business in six months at Beco than I did in four years at Bacardi, in a sense, although Bacardi gave me structure, it gave me all the things you get from working for a bigger business.
Elliot Moss
And would you say, if you were advising your younger self, go do it again George, go work for a big company, even if it’s not going to be for you long-term and therefore would that also be the advice to young people that may come to you or younger people of course? Because you’re very young, George. But younger people, would you say that to them or would you say do you know what, it’s not necessary?
George Bramble
I mean my gut feeling would be follow your heart and whatever. I had this with my nephew recently but I would say definitely get a couple of years’ experience if you can in a bigger business because when I came out of University, I was so young and I thought I knew a lot but I didn’t really and getting a couple of years’ experience in business world, 100% I would advise that, for sure. You’ve got plenty of time to start your own business.
Elliot Moss
Much more coming up from my guest, George Bramble, in a couple of minutes. Right now though, we’re going to hear a taster from the Mishcon Innovation Series, a podcast that you can find on all the major podcast platforms. Natasha Knight invites business Founders to share their industry insights and practical advice for those of you who are thinking about getting into an industry and starting your very own thing. In this clip, focussed on retail and the world of manufacturing, Julie Dean, Founder and CEO of the Cambridge Satchel Company confronts the idea that only a certain kind of person can be an entrepreneur.
All our former Business Shapers await you on the Jazz Shapers podcast and you can of course hear this very programme again if you pop Jazz Shapers into your podcast platform of choice. My guest today is George Bramble, Founder of Beco, a sustainable pet products company. So, the thing that I’m really interested in is the environmental, I’m going to use the word obsession, it doesn’t really mean it, just passion from your perspective, you went on and studied it, it was there from a young age. Why? Why, I mean we now live in 2022, in a time when everyone goes well of course we ought to protect the environment, we worry about glaciers melting, we look at terrible things happening around the world, it’s pretty obvious that the science is saying we’ve got a problem. When you were growing up and when I was growing up, and I’m older than you, I remember people saying the same thing but most people said, ‘oh yeah but they’re a bit kooky, nothing’s going on’. Why did it land so hard for you?
George Bramble
Well I think, I studied, obviously studied Environmental Sciences so I guess I got insight into it earlier than a lot of people but also…
Elliot Moss
What you made you study that? That’s, I guess what I’m interested in because that’s a thing in itself then, I imagine that’s a pretty novel…
George Bramble
I guess it was an interest and my passion probably, I’ve just said I got back from the Outer Hebrides, all my childhood holidays were spent on remote Scottish islands and that was out in boats and walking along beaches and you know, last week with my children we were up there and you know had a moment on the boat where we saw porpoises, seals, sea eagles, gannets, all within the space of about twenty minutes and when you see things like that it, I guess I was brought up with that and so I kind of took it for granted but when you see also the plastic that’s washed up on the beaches, these remote beaches, that don’t get cleaned and I enjoy spending so much time in the environment, so that’s kind of what I guess spurred my passion for the environment and then obviously, I wanted to set up a business and you know it wasn’t that I’m not saying that if you’re in business, ultimately, it wasn’t going to be 100% eco-friendly or anything like that, it was just about setting up a business and trying to create a business that caused less harm, you know, and today I’m proud to say we’re B Corp certified, we give 1% of profits back to environmental causes and we’re also certified climate neutral so, it’s just trying to do business in a better way and giving consumers the opportunity to buy products that cause less impact but also don’t cost a huge amount of money. And ultimately, we always look at it, we need to create a great product first, no one’s going to buy a dog toy that’s eco-friendly if it doesn’t work or isn’t durable, and then the environmental piece comes second but it’s absolutely central to everything we do.
Elliot Moss
Is that true of you as a person as well, the business first piece but it’s got to be environmentally friendly because as you were talking about the Outer Hebrides, you’re talking about all the different species that you see in a twenty minute thing, I’m wondering would George love to have just actually been some kind of conservationist? Would he have been quite happy rummaging around, being in the outdoors, the whole time and that notion of being in an office or being rather in a work environment is anathema to him, is that you know because sometimes you go was I meant to be ended up in a corp? You know, you say you’re not corporate but actually you’re running a business or does that, is there no tension in there at all for you?
George Bramble
I mean certainly there is a bit of tension, I mean, as I say coming back from two weeks in the Outer Hebrides and you can just feel the weight on your shoulders as you drive down south and you sort of get back into London and you’re like, let’s just move to the Hebrides but then you kind of have your wife remind you that actually for six months of the year, the weather is horrendous and it’s only light for five hours but no, I think there is definitely an element of one day, I would love to be doing something like that in the environment and you know whether it’s running charities or whatever, spending time doing that kind of stuff but I’m equally every competitive and driven and I love the buzz of being in London and running a business and trying to I guess change something or build something so, yeah, I guess it’s business first, yes I think I want to run a business that makes a profit, I’m not ashamed of that, for businesses to have an impact, they need to be successful and need to grow and so we’re kind of business first, making great pet products, enriching pets’ lives, that’s what it’s all about and pet owners’ lives, you know, one of our biggest products is, well best selling product, are poo bags believe it or not so, very proud to say I make pet waste bags but they obviously, for a pet owner, once a day or twice a day sorry, having a poo bag that stands up to the task is very, very important for obvious reasons so, you know, that’s really what it’s about.
Elliot Moss
Your whole ethos in this business is about high quality and, as I was looking at and researching prior to this conversation, it was the scepticism that you were met with in terms of other people going hold on a minute, what you want that level, I can’t do that. Being discerning, finding the right people to partner with in a business where you’re taking the environment seriously, how hard has that been and how have you managed to find those people?
George Bramble
Sometimes very hard, certainly I remember the early days when we wanted to put free range chicken in our pet food and we went to all the manufacturers and they just said you’re mad, you know, we’ve only got intensively reared chicken or intensively reared chicken, there was no option. Why would you want to put free range chicken in dog food? And eventually, I found a factory, producer that would work with us, who would source free change chicken from a farm that we’d been to in Norfolk. So, there were uphill struggles to start with but you know, it’s a challenge and the way we look at it is, with our suppliers, we’re always sort of working with them to improve, no one’s perfect and you’ve got to sort of find ways around things and to improve things and the main thing is, as long as you’ve got that transparency with your suppliers then you can work together to make a better product and that’s what it’s all about.
Elliot Moss
And you said you were competitive, obviously, earlier. Is there the sense that it’s going to be done? I’m going to sort this. Is it almost the harder it looks like it could be to make it happen, the more tenacious you become?
George Bramble
Yeah, absolutely. I think if you asked my business partner or some of my colleagues, I mean sometimes I think I’m probably too intense in that situation.
Elliot Moss
But just, can you really be too intense when you are running your own business because, truthfully, the stakes couldn’t be higher, right? It doesn’t, if you’re not fixing it, it’s not going to get fixed, George.
George Bramble
Well that’s right and I remember a friend with me the other day said, well sort of adviser, was like you know, it’s fine to say those things, just make sure you’re smiling George. And so sometimes I have to sort of take a deep breath and you know think about how I come across but yeah, you’re right and that’s what’s great about being in a small business is, whilst it keeps you up at night sometimes and it means that you don’t switch off as much, which can have its impacts, it’s also exciting and that adrenalin and you know, it mattering, is really what drives you and it’s an adventure and actually I think that’s why we’ve got an amazing team at Beco and the people we’ve attracted believe in the mission to come and work at Beco and also want to be part of something where they can make a difference because if you’re in a big organisation, you don’t have that kind of, right we need to make this happen today, it’s sort of well it can happen tomorrow or the next day or whatever and so, I think that’s, that’s been great.
Elliot Moss
And that urgency then is there every day rather than it being back in the dim and distant past when at the beginning obviously it was just you.
George Bramble
Well absolutely and I think maintaining that urgency is really important in a business and something I try to, try to do but, yeah, definitely my competitive streak of sometimes I have to take stock and say well done everyone, we’re doing a great job rather than saying what’s next?
Elliot Moss
You’re going to keep saying what’s next and I’m going to keep saying what’s next as well because it’s my final chat with George coming up in a bit and there’s also some Gil Scott-Heron just for you. That’s all coming up here on Jazz FM, don’t go anywhere.
You’ve talked about where you’ve been, you’ve talked about the fact that the world gets the point about the environment being not quite on life support but not far off, we are hurtling towards serious problems for our generation but much more for our children and our children’s children. So the mission is really important and therefore that sense of urgency is really important for you I imagine as you try and grow your business. How do you balance your ambitions for growth and doing brilliantly with ensuring that you bring people with you because, you know, that is not panic that we all have but there’s a sense of drive that we’ve got to do stuff quickly? How do you manage that and how does the team manage it?
George Bramble
Well, it’s a good question, I mean we, I’m lucky in the sense that I’ve got some people within the team that are self-starters and you know very driven in themselves and I think what I’ve realised over the years in a small business, is you hire people and you can help develop them and everything else but you can’t pull, drag people, kicking and screaming, you have to create an environment that is exciting, challenging, fun, get people to believe in the mission, which is the key and believe in what we’re doing and then hopefully, they get on the bus and go with you and actually, to an extent, drag you as well, drag you along as well so, but it is tricky and I think the main thing is, you know, over the years I’ve had to teach myself that sometimes it’s through encouragement, you know, positive reinforcement, that you get more out of people, that’s what I’ve learned rather than you know the other way round of why, why haven’t I got this on time or vice versa and yeah, so it is a challenge but I know we’ve got a great team that’s going quickly in the right direction.
Elliot Moss
And how do you personally get the balance right between stretch, financial stretch objectives versus you know, not driving hard enough. I mean, is that just feel?
George Bramble
Yeah, I think so.
Elliot Moss
Because you talked about growing in a more evolutionary way rather than this kind of being pumped full of money and then having these crazy targets. It sounds like you’re much more steady as she goes.
George Bramble
Absolutely. I think growth is important for us but it’s not at all costs and there are many businesses out there, especially in the FMCG world, consumer world, where it’s top line growth at all cost and frankly they don’t care about the bottom line, we don’t have that luxury because we’re not backed by private equity so, sometimes you go a bit harder and then sometimes you have to rein it in a little and you know, and mainly and focussing creating a great product and developing a great brand and being profitable is really important.
Elliot Moss
And looking towards the future, you remain positive despite what’s going on environmentally. Is there a sense that actually that just makes you feel even stronger about the thing you’re trying to do?
George Bramble
Yeah, 100% and I think there’s a, there has been a real shift in the last few years and we’ve found it with dog ownership, a lot of younger pet owners, they really do buy into brands with a mission, not necessarily an environmental mission, but they do care, I mean that’s what they’re talking about. You can get quite doom and gloom about it because, you know, it is a fairly serious situation we find ourselves in but ultimately, I think it’s much more important to celebrate small changes and improvements and ultimately, I think a lot of people get phased by the fact that, you know, where do I start and I think it’s about encouraging people just to start with small things, whether it’s recycling their things at home, whether it’s washing their clothes every other day instead of every day, you know, little things like that we can all do at home. We had someone come into the office the other day who talked about I think it was forty ways to reduce your plastic usage and they came in on a lunch break, got the whole team in and it was fascinating and there’s just so many things, I didn’t even know you could do…
Elliot Moss
Go on, give me one.
George Bramble
Well, there’s one of the ones is, you can get these bee wax, instead of using clingfilm, you can get bee wax cloths that are covered in bee wax and you can bend them round on top of your food or food containers so, there’s, there’s one, one tip.
Elliot Moss
That’s a good one. I’ve got a family that’s addicted to clingfilm, it seems. Another covering is bee wax. Who knew?
George Bramble
A canvas covered in bee wax, there you go.
Elliot Moss
If nothing else has gone through, that has gone through, I take your advice and I will, I will do something about it. It’s been really nice chatting to you, George, good luck, good luck with ensuring that through osmosis and other ways, the mission is, is pushing Beco forward and yeah, all the very, very best. Just before I let you disappear, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
George Bramble
Humphrey Lyttleton’s Bad Penny Blues. My father was very much into jazz, brought up in London in the sixties, spent a lot of time at Ronnie Scott’s and this is one of his favourites, so that’s why I’ve chosen it.
Elliot Moss
Fantastic. Here it is, just for you and him.
That was Humphrey Lyttleton with Bad Penny Blues, the song choice of my Business Shaper today, George Bramble. He talked about something very basic, which is that you have to be able to sell. If you’re going to set up a business, you have to be able to sell your products. He talked about following his heart and what great advice that was for him at the right time. He talked about not being able to drag people kicking and screaming towards a future, they have to believe in the mission and if you don’t describe and explain that mission, you ain’t going to be able to do that. And finally, there’s a lot of problems, there’s a lot of naysayers, there’s a lot of negativity, you’ve got to be able to within all of that, celebrate small changes. That’s it from Jazz Shapers, have a lovely weekend.
We hope you enjoyed that edition of Jazz Shapers. You’ll find hundreds of more guests available for you to listen to in our archive, to find out more just search Jazz Shapers in iTunes or your favourite podcast platform or head over to Mishcon.com/JazzShapers.