Elliot Moss
Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today, I’m very pleased to say is Marielle Wyse, founder and creative director of Wyse London, the women’s wear brand. Having followed as a child her mother’s passion for making her own clothes, Marielle’s career began in the world of fashion organising models and shoots for Elle and Sky Magazine before a move to television, making wild life documentaries. Having paused her career to concentrate of raising her young family it was eight years later that Marielle, age 49, and hungry to create something was inspired by a friend to start her own business. Never having found the perfect cashmere jumper, Marielle set out to create her own range. Wyse London was launched in 2015 starting with five designs and growing slowly and leanly as she said, before re-shaping during lockdown how they connect with and understand their customers – much more on that shortly. They have since opened two central London stores with a growing business in the US and an ever expanding clothing and accessories range. It’s lovely to have you here, you are the founder of your own business.
Marielle Wyse
It’s lovely to be here, thank you Elliot. Er, I am.
Elliot Moss
You are.
Marielle Wyse
It would seem, yes.
Elliot Moss
Well it’s funny you say, it would seem. Here we are almost 10, pretty much 10 years later. What does it feel like looking back to go, I did that?
Marielle Wyse
Er, it feels like an accident that kind of transformed into a business. I mean I never was one of these people that thought I’d start a business but now I’ve done it, I understand why it’s happened.
Elliot Moss
And why has it happened?
Marielle Wyse
Er, because I needed to be in control of something. That sounds awful doesn’t it but I needed to run something, I needed to have, I’ve always had a desire to lead something and I think through my career without having run a business, working for other people, I’ve always sort of slightly asked myself the question why, why aren’t they listening to what I am saying, it’s such a great idea and I think it helps having that element of you because that has allowed me to actually follow some of my sort of love and passions and convictions and lead them which is something I naturally have I think.
Elliot Moss
And where does that come from do you think? I mean we talk about genetics and we might get on to worry and things like that in a bit but let, let’s talk about the, the desire to lead because I know exactly what you mean, like I feel the same.
Marielle Wyse
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
I’m not running my own business, I’m an owner in a business but it’s not quite the same, you are like, of course I’ve got the right answer.
Marielle Wyse
I think...
Elliot Moss
Where’s that from?
Marielle Wyse
…I think you know my brother would say, my dear brother would say that you know, I was the one who was the boss between the relationship between siblings and I’ve always just wanted to make decisions and I think it’s genetic to be honest. I think it is something you either have or you don’t. My father did have a business and maybe I watched a little bit of that but I think it’s just one of those things that you have in you and I just didn’t realise it until I started running a business and then it started to all fall a little bit into place.
Elliot Moss
I want to come obviously to Wyse London but your dad ran a, it was a record shop on the Kings Road?
Marielle Wyse
Yeah he ran a record shop on the Kings Road and it’s really funny because oh God, it’s the loveliest story – when I opened my sop on the Kings Road which is down the road, he opened it in the 1960s, my brother came with a picture of my father’s shop which I then hung in my shop and then my kids gave me a picture of them outside the shop holding the picture so generations are going through the Kings Road which is lovely actually.
Elliot Moss
And your dad, where do you think your dad had that thing from as well, that desire to do his own thing?
Marielle Wyse
Er, well I think it all stems from something which is whatever you love to do. His was a record shop, he loved music, he loved Jazz music and classical music and he started as a record shop and it transformed into a bigger business but I think we both ended up doing something we love, I think that’s, that’s the only way to do a business actually is it has to be something you love.
Elliot Moss
Now as you were saying, you didn’t always make clothes but you did want to lead, you were in the fashion world. Was that fun? I mean a bit of fashion photography I think you were helping…
Marielle Wyse
Yeah it was fun, I mean, I left it because I found it, I think two dimensional. I um I sort of found that there wasn’t enough to it. I loved it but it didn’t go any further. I wanted more context, more, just more meat to it. I thought there was only so much I really worry about a picture, a fashion picture and as a child I used to make all my own clothes and I think that what I am doing now taps into that desire to create but I’ve also got he aspect of running a business so I think it operates different areas of my brain that I really like to operate. So I like the challenge of running a business but I love the beauty of creating clothes and the emotional connection that people have with clothing.
Elliot Moss
And let’s talk about the beauty of making clothes. So that did begin as a kid um, I read somewhere that your, the gingham shirt was the first thing that you kind of made properly that you would consider an item. What does it feel like when you make stuff?
Marielle Wyse
Um…
Elliot Moss
You personally?
Marielle Wyse
…amazing actually. It is an amazing thing because you are starting from nothing and sometimes I remind myself it’s actually, like there is nothing and so you sit down and you know, as a team you say, right I like this and d,d,d,d,d and the next thing you know a sample comes in and it could be awful but it can also be amazing and you think, we created that and it is a very rewarding thing to do because you are just starting from scratch and just making things and they can really, really make people happy you know, when they wear them if you’ve got your job done right basically.
Elliot Moss
I mean the mood you’re in when you are actually creating and the team is creating must be really a key determining factor of where you go because again the business for you is, you talk about timeless style rather than the faddy fashion thing, we’ll come on to the forgotten woman that you talked about earlier on and now the joie de vivre point around, I just want to tap into women who are different ages now and not just middle aged um, what kind of mood are you in when you create? Does it change and does it affect where it comes out.
Marielle Wyse
It, it does change, it’s very much a mood that reflects I think as well where we are in the world a little bit. I mean if you know, if the world is in a great happy place you want to do flamboyance and I think when it’s in a sort of more you know, tricky place, you want some core things that you can wear all the time that make sense for the current lifestyle that you lead, it does change though, I do change depending on you know, how I feel about things. I would say it is quite challenging actually to create, you have to really, really feel things and you know it is very much a team work, it’s like, what do you think about this and how do we do this and… but I think I’ve always, some people see in words, some people see in pictures. I see, if somebody says to me, can you see this in this colour and this colour and this colour, I can. So I think I’ve got an ability to visualise and I think that that really helps with my day to day.
Elliot Moss
I remember interviewing Thea Green and obviously she’s in Nails Inc and all that and we were talking about well who makes the decision in the room you know, if it’s going to be a gauche green or it’s going to be a rouge red. Who does in your, is it Marielle the leader or are you a bit more democratic than that?
Marielle Wyse
No I try and be democratic because I say, what do you think and then…
Elliot Moss
And do you mean it though? Marielle?
Marielle Wyse
I would say…
Elliot Moss
Mostly?
Marielle Wyse
…65% of the time yeah. Sometimes I am just like no, no, no that just doesn’t work.
Elliot Moss
But the no’s are over there, I get that but where it’s like, are you surprised sometimes by the team and you go, that’s better, that’s bigger, that’s more interesting than I was thinking?
Marielle Wyse
Oh definitely and sometimes I look at them and I go, okay you’re cool, let’s give it a go and um then when it happens and it works I’m you know, I remember that it was their call and that is democratic. You know, it is a team work, I do feel like because I am the customer and because I am wearing it and that’s why I created it, it was just to make clothes that I wanted to wear that I really should feel comfortable with it as well.
Elliot Moss
Stay with me for much more from my Business Shaper, it’s Marielle Wyse, founder of Wyse London. It is London isn’t it.
Marielle Wyse
Yes.
Elliot Moss
It is London, good that was lucky. But it’s global, Wyse London but global.
Marielle Wyse
Hopefully.
Elliot Moss
She’s coming back in a couple of minutes but right now we’re going to hear a taster from the Positive Disrupter Series, a new podcast which can be found on all of the major platforms. Kieran John, a lawyer at Mishcon de Reya talks to leaders who have taken innovative approaches to make a positive impact. In this clip we hear from Sarah King, co-founder of Obu, the fintech supporting angel investors and purpose led women founded businesses.
You can enjoy all our former Business Shapers on the Jazz Shapers podcast and you can hear this very programme again if pop ‘Jazz Shapers’ into your podcast platform of choice. My guest today is Marielle Wyse, founder and creative director of Wyse London, the women’s wear brand. So we talked a little bit around the process but I want to go back in time a little bit. So 2015 comes, you’ve been a mum for around 8 years or so.
Marielle Wyse
8, 10 years yep.
Elliot Moss
8, 10 years and when you’re in it and you’re a full time anything, whether its work or whether it’s being a parent, the rest of life sort of disappears, it becomes the primary focus. It sounded like you, you wanted something else beyond being a mum, is that right?
Marielle Wyse
Oh God yes I really did and I tried very hard to go back into television which was my previous career, I used to make television programmes and I couldn’t find something, I’d made natural history programmes and I couldn’t find something. I was being asked to do like day time programmes and things like that and I just thought, I don’t really want to do that, that’s not exactly where my heart is and I couldn’t find something that would fit around having two children and I was very much a dedicated mum I think in that I wanted to do, one thing I think in life is that if you are going to do a job, do it well so I wanted to be a good mum and I had to find something that fitted into my life and what I didn’t realise was that by starting a business you could, one of the amazing things of it, is that you can make it revolve around your life, kind of less as it grows in a way but it allowed me to do that and as the kids grew older, the business got bigger and it kind of happened – I don’t know if it happened by accident or because I allowed it to happen or I made it happen or whatever, it worked with my life.
Elliot Moss
Was there a sense also when you were a mum that your sense of who you were and you were a full-time mum and this could happen to full-time dads as well, I, this is not a gendered point so to speak, but your sense of who you were had changed and maybe that self-worth wasn’t there?
Marielle Wyse
I can’t emphasise how tricky that period of my life was. Much as I absolutely loved my children and you know, was the best lasagne maker or whatever it was, I definitely lost my identity and looking back I really, I found that hard and I would say it openly to my kids now and I would encourage them to kind of keep something going underneath because when I found it back in a new way, it was great you know, even though it’s challenging, it was great to have something to strive towards.
Elliot Moss
You know though when you’re in that place where you’re do… you know you’re doing a great job and the lasagne is fabulous and everything works and the kids are ready and you’re spending brilliant time with them and you are watching these beautiful little seeds growing into wonderful flowers and all that. How did you grab yourself out of that with that lack of, that lower sense of self-worth or confidence and how did you transport yourself into a, you know you had to do something but you actually did it because a lot of people get stuck and they you know, they want to move on but they can’t. How did you do that?
Marielle Wyse
Yeah I think mainly it was just not luck but, but creating luck you know, I just showing these things to people and they were really picking them up and looking at it and I thought, oh somebody might like this and then, and then I did a fair and then it was busy and I was selling things and I was like, this can actually make money and I kind of went with the flow a bit. I sort of never really did it knowing what would happen or thinking what would happen, I’ve never written a business plan and I’ve never read a business plan probably to my detriment actually um but I think what I did was I realised there was an opportunity and I seized it and I think that part of the way to navigate your way through part of life is to see when there’s an opportunity because you never know what can happen.
Elliot Moss
Stay with me for much more from my Business Shaper, it’s Marielle Wyse, founder of Wyse London. Right now it’s one of my favourites, drum roll, it’s Jimmy Smith with Got My Mojo Working.
Mr Jimmy Smith, Got My Mojo Working, my first introduction to jazz was through my late father and so that means a lot to me. Marielle Wyse is my Business Shaper here on Jazz Shapers and we’ve been talking about that transition from being a full-time anything, in your instance a mum, into that world. The organic nature of the growth. Back then in 2015 it’s five pieces at the fair. Here we are in 2024, 10 years on or so and it’s a bit more than that. What do you put it down to? This growth?
Marielle Wyse
I think it’s probably seizing opportunity again and I would just cite the moment of lockdown at this point was what, March 2020?
Elliot Moss
Yep.
Marielle Wyse
And we were a wholesale business as well as a direct consumer business and I remember looking at the team and saying, we have to cancel all the wholesale orders because I don’t know that any shop is going to come back in business and so I went home and I thought, well what I have got to do and I thought well the only thing I’ve got is my phone and Instagram and I turned the phone on myself and I started talking to the consumer and the moment I did that it changed our business and we dropped our whole wholesale business. The conversation with the customer really took off and we just shot.
Elliot Moss
So the camera goes on. You’ve got it facing you. You are looking at it and you go, what am I going to say? What did you say?
Marielle Wyse
I said, how are you all doing? It’s a bit rubbish out there isn’t it um, shall we talk about clothes because we might as well talk about something nice and we did and we never stopped and um…
Elliot Moss
And that feeling when the thing went on?
Marielle Wyse
We just…
Elliot Moss
For you though, what was the feeling when you literally started talking?
Marielle Wyse
Well it was, it was an op… it was again an opportunity and it just made sense and it was a great voice because it was a conversation between me and the customer and she said, no I don’t like that colour and I was like, good point I don’t really like it either.
Elliot Moss
So they were coming back very quickly? Like a lot?
Marielle Wyse
In bucket loads.
Elliot Moss
And how did you, because now there’s 140,000 people that are following you, you’ve got Ambassadors who are constantly saying, hey look at me I’m a different shape to that woman there, look at me I’m a different shape, different age and all that but that the influx, you must have a team that has to deal with all of those things.
Marielle Wyse
I still do quite a lot myself because I still like to listen to what the customer is saying and I have got a few people to help now on Instagram and things like but I think that conversation is probably at the heart of our very business because without the customer we are nothing and a lot of brands think that I hope but it’s a direct insight you know, it’s, it’s right there.
Elliot Moss
But that dialogue must be authentic Marielle because…
Marielle Wyse
Totally, totally.
Elliot Moss
…if it isn’t there’s a load of brands that try and ‘listen’, quotes unquote or that try and present themselves in a certain way. What do you think is in the DNA of the brand, removing yourself from it. What is it that people are connecting with?
Marielle Wyse
I think, I think they connect with the fact that I’m a woman like them, the same as them. Going through all the things that people go through the ups, the downs, the this, the that you know, and I want to feel good as much as they do and so it is completely genuine conversation between us. There is nothing inauthentic about it.
Elliot Moss
And it’s funny you, interesting you say it was an opportunity. A lot of people in the retail world during or just at the beginning of Covid would have said the absolute opposite, this is the death of my business. Was it just obvious to you that this was a chance to go direct?
Marielle Wyse
No, no. I had no idea I was going to do it but again I think that one of the things that I have is I don’t, I am not very good at learning systems or your know, routines so when you don’t have that in you there’s nothing to stop you so you, you just go with the flow and I just went with the flow and it just, it was fun. We had, it was really good fun.
Elliot Moss
Final chat coming up with my guest today, that’s Marielle Wyse and we’ve got some music from Jordan Rakei. That’s in just a moment, don’t go anywhere.
You are listening to Jazz Shapers and it’s me, Elliot Moss talking to Marielle Wyse just for a few more minutes. So, so this growth has been great and this you know, in best practice books they say you’ve got to understand the consumer. You saw because you are that consumer. Where does it go from here? What’s stopping you serving all the brilliant consumers who are the forgotten women and which I just want you to talk about for a moment, as well as the women who have the joie de vivre and I guess at that moment you haven’t quite pivoted away from a woman like you but what you’re saying is, there’s also a whole bunch of other women who are not the same age as you, who are not the same as you going I really like the style of that. How are you going to keep on talking to both and keep on growing with both?
Marielle Wyse
Um, I guess it’s having a good team on board that keeps you thinking what’s relevant, what’s new, what’s good. I don’t want to alienate my customer but I do want to bring in new customers as well so it’s, it’s how you keep fresh and yeah and moving the brand forward. You don’t want a stale brand, you want a brand that surprises people but still within the confines of who you are.
Elliot Moss
Yeah because those anchors are important.
Marielle Wyse
Really important.
Elliot Moss
The Debra Betts Initiative um and then I think you’ve had a couple of others, is it Amelia Fox?
Marielle Wyse
Yep.
Elliot Moss
Yeah. How do you decide who you collaborate with? What do they bring to the business? Is it just freshness simply?
Marielle Wyse
It’s a little bit of freshness, a little bit of like mindedness, for lack of a better word. It’s just people that, you know, women that like to look good, feel good, they bring a different dynamic. They’ve got maybe a different, a slightly different DNA to, to me in particular. It’s just, but it’s harmonious somewhere so it’s just a little bit different, different angles on to the same big circle.
Elliot Moss
Is it the gut though that decides whether it is going to work or not?
Marielle Wyse
Everything is the gut.
Elliot Moss
Because the herringbone jacket I was looking at or the, or the, the blue denim jumpsuit, you may think I’ve gone a bit mad but.
Marielle Wyse
You’re good.
Elliot Moss
I’m good, I’m good because I’m on my wife’s, Lyndsey is super into fashion so I’ve become a kind of a crummy student but I enjoy looking and going, oh right but that reminds me of other brands as well but there’s, is there a moment when you go, no that’s outside the confines of the castle.
Marielle Wyse
Definitely, yeah no, no I do, I do. Occasionally I am like, mm reign that one in a little bit and er…
Elliot Moss
And you just know, you’re not looking again at a style guide.
Marielle Wyse
I just know and by the way, I am not always right but I just, I have to somewhere along the line say, I think that’s not quite working or it is or whatever so within the confines but we push it, we do like to push it as well and you know, it doesn’t always work you know.
Elliot Moss
Do you want to be huge? Do you want to be a mega brand?
Marielle Wyse
That’s a very good question. I would like the brand to be much bigger than it is because I think it serves you know, without, it doesn’t sound big headed but I see why people like it so I would like it to be bigger than it is. Huge, if it can be huge but still be the heart and soul of who it is then fantastic but I still would like to see the heart and soul remain.
Elliot Moss
So here, here’s a theory, or rather a premise, 4,500 people in your business now imagine. Not 45, you’re in 15 countries. Do you want to be at the top of that or do you want to be the person that said, I created that?
Marielle Wyse
Probably by the time that happens I will be the person that has created that given where I am. I started a bit late in life, I wish I kind of started earlier but I can’t go back so there we go.
Elliot Moss
Do you wish you had started earlier though truthfully?
Marielle Wyse
I think that I would have seen more of it develop if I had but maybe I wouldn’t have had that life experience so you know you can’t regret anything because there’s no point but there’s arguments both ways.
Elliot Moss
It’s been great to chat to you Marielle, thank you and thanks for your openness as well.
Marielle Wyse
Thank you.
Elliot Moss
Good luck with the 4,500 people, I’ve just made up for you.
Marielle Wyse
Fingers crossed.
Elliot Moss
Yeah fingers crossed, and world domination for, for Wyse London and then the world. Just before I let you disappear, what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
Marielle Wyse
So I’ve chosen the song All Of Me by Billie Holiday, it’s dedicated to my father, my no longer here father who was a big jazz fan and loved Billie Holiday so there we go.
Elliot Moss
Billie Holiday with All Of Me, the song choice of my Business Shaper today, Marielle Wyse. She talked about wanting more context, the fact that doing a job wasn’t enough and she wanted the creative side and she wanted the business side. Do whatever you love to do, if you are going to run your own business you have to love it otherwise it is just not going to work for you or indeed anybody else. “I went with the flow” she said, that moment of transition from being a full-time mum into building a full-time business and finally, “I am a woman like them” in other words that relatability, that fact that she is in the shoes of her customer has really helped Wyse London become what it is. Great stuff. That’s it from Jazz Shapers, have a lovely weekend.
We hope you enjoyed that edition of Jazz Shapers. You’ll find hundreds more guests available for you to listen to in our archive, to find out more just search Jazz Shapers in iTunes or your favourite podcast platform or head over to mishcon.com/jazzshapers.