Elliot Moss
That was Aretha Franklin with I Say A Little Prayer, a very iconic number too. Good morning this is Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss here on Jazz FM thank you very much for joining me. Jazz Shapers is the place where you can hear the very best of the people shaping the world of jazz, blues and soul and right alongside them we bring someone who is shaping the world of business and we call them Business Shapers. I am really pleased to say my Business Shaper today is Simon Franks and Simon Franks is a Founder at least twice over; Founder of the Redbus film distribution business also one of the Founders of LoveFilm you will have heard of them I’m sure and also Founder and Chairman of the Franks Family Foundation because this man in front of me is also a major philanthropist not to mention politics and many other things which you will be hearing all about very shortly. In addition to hearing from Simon you will be hearing from our programme partners at Mishcon de Reya some words of advice for your business and then we have got some fantastic music from the shapers of jazz, blues and soul; Marvin Gaye is in there, China Moses, Bill Withers and this from the great South African trumpeter none other than Hugh Masekela.
Hugh Masekela with Grazing In The Grass. This is Jazz Shapers and Simon Franks is my Business Shaper today, Founder more than once and a very active philanthropist we’re going to start at the beginning though. Simon thank you for joining me.
Simon Franks
At the very beginning?
Elliot Moss
At the very beginning hopefully. Tell me Simon you became a wealthy guy at a young age. You sold your business called Redbus which you sold to Lionsgate I believe?
Simon Franks
No actually that was the first business I sold I sold to a company called Helcom which was a German public company and that was in 1999/2000 time when as you said I was pretty young. It was a bit of a life changing moment.
Elliot Moss
Tell me about the bit before that. You weren’t in the film business were you?
Simon Franks
No, no so I didn’t have any money and I grew up in a community where I didn’t know many people who would have money to back me so I asked my lecturer at University you know I want to have my own business but I have no money what do I do and he said to me ‘well that’s easy banking’. I said ‘oh really’ and so…
Elliot Moss
What did you study at university?
Simon Franks
I did management science at UMIS. A University that doesn’t exist anymore it’s now part of the University of Manchester. But it’s still in my heart.
Elliot Moss
Still in your heart, I can see that through your eyes. Tell me though so he said go into the world of banking.
Simon Franks
Yeah so I got a job in banking which was fascinating and terrible and I said to myself, I saw lots of great people get trapped in the system of just being addicted to the money but I said to myself when I get to X and it wasn’t an enormous amount I think it was around £100,000 which is a lot obviously but not going to change the world when I got to that amount I am walking out the door and that’s more or less what happened.
Elliot Moss
And you walked out the door and then you go I know what I’m going to set up a film business?
Simon Franks
No, no.
Elliot Moss
Because that would be a big leap wouldn’t it?
Simon Franks
It would have been a big leap. I mean one of the things I say to lots of other entrepreneurs that I speak with is often your first idea isn’t the idea you end up on and often in researching the idea and starting along the road of the first idea you end up finding another idea and that’s where we got to. I started off by saying that the Bowie Bonds, I don’t know if you remember that, that was when David Bowie ran out of money and securitised his music rights I thought wow what a great idea. I’m going to do that for film rights. I’m going to go to all these film producers and say hey guess what I’ll pay you upfront for the royalties to your movies because they create an interesting library and an income stream. That original idea which I thought was absolutely inspired turned out to be less than inspired. But it led me to a new world of understanding about, learning about the film industry and the mechanics of the film industry and that led me to a random event in the way the universe has sort of led my life to getting a call from a guy called Cliff Stanford who had created Demon Internet which was like the first internet provider in the UK and he’s a really unusual character and basically we ended up doing some work together he was very keen to be involved with films and he said something to me one day he said you know I’m really upset when I sold Demon I think it was to Scottish Telecom he said I was really upset because I had this group of research and development guys, young, real geeky internet people who were great but the work they were doing Scottish Telecom don’t want and so they’re sort of firing them all. I said well what do these guys do he said oh it’s something, it’s ridiculous they’ve got this idea that you could stream movies down the internet and I went sorry, is that possible? He said well it’s not possible today but conceptionally it is possible. This is you know 1997/8 we’re talking about and I went I’ve got to meet these guys and I went to meet these guys in some dungeon in East London and I was just blown away and I hired them. I didn’t have any money at the time but they were about to be fired anyway so I thought this is a no risk situation so I hired them all and that led to us developing a streaming technology and we were arguably the first in the world, certainly the first in Europe but arguably the first in the world to stream a whole movie across the internet and I remember we did it, we had to do it from Docklands to the West End because that was the only place which had fast enough fibre to be able to actually do it. But we did it and we had this compression technology which I’m not going to talk about because it sounds quite dull but we developed this thing purely by luck and that was my first business in effect.
Elliot Moss
Stay with me for more from my Business Shaper and the story is going to unfold right in front of you I hope. That’s Simon Franks. Founder of Redbus, film distribution founder, one of the Founders of LoveFilm and as you said earlier someone who has let the universe guide him to a point I guess. Time for some more music this is Marvin Gaye with Mercy Mercy Me.
That was Marvin Gaye with Mercy Mercy Me. Simon Franks is my Business Shaper today he’s been talking about bumping into the man behind Demon which was one of the first internet service providers I believe way back in the day.
Simon Franks
It’s funny how life works right.
Elliot Moss
It is funny how life works Simon and I just want to go back a bit because you talked very briefly about you coming from not a well off family. People talk about entrepreneurs a lot and what drives them. You seem to me immediately quite clear on what you think and kind of like you’re going to go and chase something and you chase something. There you just said you know I hired some people I mean there was nothing to lose they were fired anyway where did that drive and that assurance come from do you think?
Simon Franks
I don’t know, I think I’ve been in that kind of sense confident since birth. I’ve always felt that I could just make it happen somehow. Don’t confuse security and confidence I was always a confident guy, not the most secure guy maybe but very confident about my abilities and what I could do and just going back to where you say I mean the reason you talked about the background I came from is that people presume if they meet you and you’ve got money that that’s, you’ve always come from having a lot of money and you don’t understand the experiences of not having money and that’s not true. You know my grandfather originally when he was young worked in the railways, my parents met in an M&S shop where they both worked at the same time. My mum worked for M&S her whole career. My father later on in life had some success in business and did really well but when I was growing up you know I went to comprehensive schools and my experience of life was certainly not a wealthy one and I think that you know I do try and tell people that because I think you know otherwise they have this imagination I grew up in a palace somewhere and I didn’t.
Elliot Moss
But we’re going to come on later to the philanthropy because it strikes me you have a very inherent sense of justice and what is right and what isn’t and I wonder where that might come from?
Simon Franks
I’m really glad you expressed it in that way because actually in some ways I think it didn’t start from altruism it started from I just don’t like seeing injustice.
Elliot Moss
There was a bit of anger almost?
Simon Franks
Yeah there’s definitely anger. If I’m honest there is definitely anger. I’m trying to reduce that as I got older but there’s definitely anger and I want to hold onto some of that because the way we run our world is incredibly unjust and I just don’t understand it. I think we would all be better off if we did it a little bit fairer and that’s been something since childhood I’ve never liked seeing unfairness. I never liked the bully. I mean I was always the guy who hated the bully and I feel that you know perhaps society as a whole we could start focusing on just making life more just. You know life doesn’t have to be easy but it has to be just.
Elliot Moss
And we’re going to come back to that. I want to jump back into you meet these guys in the dungeon.
Simon Franks
Yeah.
Elliot Moss
Then you go and hire them. What then… just capture those first few years of creating this business that actually was going to fly.
Simon Franks
Well I mean the irony is that when I started the business I obviously didn’t have enough money to have my own office so I had enough money from banking that I could not earn any money for a couple of years and so I literally went into my spare bedroom which my girlfriend at the time and I used as our dressing room it was a tiny, it was the size of you know maybe a small bathroom, it was very modest and I took out all the clothes, put in a desk and that became the start of our company and I remember it was really hard to sort of get people to take you seriously because it was a small spare bedroom in a flat above a restaurant you know in North London. But to me it became the centre of my empire even though the empire was just me. But you have to believe and work hard and I did believe and I did work hard and get luck.
Elliot Moss
But this belief and working hard is one thing many people might have a bit of belief, many people might work hard but what do you think was the magic ingredient that allowed this thing called Redbus to actually fly?
Simon Franks
I think for me I think I am in some ways quite good at innovating but I am also quite negative and I think that’s a really good combination because I discard bad ideas quite quickly and I don’t flog dead horses and when I made a mistake I put my hands up and I changed course. You know there’s that sort of phrase where you say you know when the situation changes you know I change what do you do and I really believe in that and I tell a lot of entrepreneurs don’t, you know, if you’ve got it wrong accept it, move on quickly and I was very good at that so all of the sort of ridiculous ideas that came across my desk I very quickly discovered them to be ridiculous and moved on.
Elliot Moss
And just before we go to the travel I just want to ask you one quick question about the money. So the money lands in your account, you sold the business, this is the guy who has come from your background who has not been used to that kind of money as you said. What did that feel like?
Simon Franks
It was a very, very surreal experience and I didn’t really want anyone to know. I didn’t do any press about it, I only told literally one or two of my friends. I just literally put the money in the bank, didn’t touch it, stayed living above the restaurant with my best mate. I just wanted life to be normal and to take time to think about it. You know I was quite a show off when I was young and I didn’t want to be a show off. I knew I didn’t want to be that person so I literally thought well the only way to do that is not to spend it because otherwise you can start showing off quite easily with that kind of money. So I did nothing but it did make me feel a little bit set aside from other people living their life who I knew had the sort of financial struggles that most people are having and that I felt a little bit uncomfortable maybe that politically shaped some of my views later on.
Elliot Moss
Stay with me for my intriguing guest here who is revealing how strange it can feel I guess to have money in the bank and not necessarily want anyone to know about it. Much more coming up from Simon Franks my Business Shaper. Latest travel in a couple of minutes and before that some words of wisdom I hope from our programme partners at Mishcon de Reya for your burgeoning business idea.
You are listening to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss. Every Saturday I get to meet someone who is doing something interesting and who is shaping the world of business. If you’ve missed any of my fabulous guests go into iTunes put in the words ‘Jazz’ and ‘Shapers’. Cityam.com is another destination. British Airways if you’re flying soon, you can find us there on the High Life radio channel. Simon Franks is my Business Shaper today the man behind LoveFilm, the man behind Redbus and the man behind the Franks Family Foundation which since around 2006 has been giving away lots of money and we’re going to come to that not just money but expertise as well. So you sell this business, the money is in the bank we were talking about that. There’s a strange feeling, that feeling of kind of what you do next. You don’t stop there though you’ve obviously got other ideas that are still going and you put the money to one side. What’s your focus because it’s not money, you’re not driven by the money are you at that point?
Simon Franks
No I don’t think…
Elliot Moss
Were you ever driven by money?
Simon Franks
I was driven by not being poor. I can tell you that.
Elliot Moss
Okay.
Simon Franks
But actually no because I am probably poorer now than I was fifteen years ago so and I don’t have to be. I mean I don’t think money is my drive and obviously the Foundation gives away a lot of the money that I had so I guess if money was my drive I wouldn’t be doing that but obviously it’s a score, it’s a measure of success I guess in some ways and I would rather have it than not have it. But turning to what you asked about what happened next so I had a business partner called Ziggy Kamasa and he and I originally had this idea to be distributing films and buying film rights and securitising films all that kind of thing and so Ziggy and I, all these distractions sort of came and went, this sort of whole internet thing and the compressing images and that kind of stuff but Ziggy and I underneath that had also been trying to build this distribution business and we had another stroke of luck when Universal bought Polygram Music and then closed down the film business which was like the number one distributor in the UK and a great company. They did so many great British films Lock, Stock and Four Weddings those kind of things. So Ziggy and I went, sort of rocked up to the team at Polygram and said well and you’ve heard this before you’re all about to be fired how would you like to come and work for us. We can’t actually guarantee we can pay you for very long but who knows but we can hire you together as a team and they were very keen to stay together as a team. So we literally hired them, lock stock and barrel and they joined us and thank God we had a hit straight away.
Elliot Moss
Was that Bend It Like Beckham?
Simon Franks
No way before that, Maybe Baby. Thank God Ben Elton made that film and that was a hit for us, got us a lot of traction and then also on the doors opened up and then we made some great films which went on to do very well and in the film business if you have hits you’re in good shape.
Elliot Moss
Now did you, was film a passion or was it just a vehicle for you?
Simon Franks
Film is my passion. In fact film and music are my passions they move me in ways that nothing else does in terms of the arts but one of the things I told you is that I am also quite negative and that negativity leads me to know that making films you love is not a very good way to build a business. I focus on making films that I believe had commercial potential and the risk reward made them worth making which sounds really unromantic but one thing I can say and I am proud of is later on as we were a success we started doing some films that I was passionate about which we lost money on but I felt proud that I did them.
Elliot Moss
Stay with me for more from my Business Shaper today that’s Simon Franks. Time for some more music this is Bill Withers and Use Me.
Bill Withers with Use Me. Simon Franks is my Business Shaper and we’ve been talking about all sorts of things and about passion versus commerciality and you’ve obviously got your fix through film. You talked to me about loving film and you quite rightly said you know important to know when it’s not going to work but you’re doing it for a different reason and obviously you’re afforded that luxury as things start to go well. There have been some fabulous films I should have mentioned, you mentioned Maybe Baby. Goodnight and Good Luck, Bend It Like Beckham.
Simon Franks
Nominated for a best picture.
Elliot Moss
Yeah I mean really big, big numbers. When you’re in that scene were you taking with that I’m going to call it baggage but don’t take it the wrong way. Were you taking with that I can’t be showy offy in here I’m now in this film world but I must be, you must have been full of pride that the guy from Colindale, Edgware is suddenly here and there’s red carpets and there’s money and there’s, you’ve made your films?
Simon Franks
Yeah I was full of pride but I tried to play that guy, the sort of the understated cool guy in the room where you thought who’s he and it turns out well he owns the company. That was the guy I tried to play that role.
Elliot Moss
Did you play it well?
Simon Franks
I had some successes I mean obviously I was focused at that time on female appreciation and there were some actresses along the way who thought that is quite a cool guy in the corner but after a while I had to grow up and…
Elliot Moss
And be yourself.
Simon Franks
Be myself, yeah. I actually wasn’t that cool guy in the corner.
Elliot Moss
But in that phase, this is now your thirties and things like that.
Simon Franks
Yeah. Early thirties.
Elliot Moss
Your early thirties. Were there moments, were there mini epiphanies along the way where you said do you know what I just need to be myself and if so what were they?
Simon Franks
To be honest the film industry is full of people who are not very good at being themselves and I met some wonderful people in it but there’s also a lot of people where the absolute desire for fame and to be recognised is overwhelming and I don’t think it’s necessarily the most healthy of desires and there’s a lot of bad behaviour in it and ultimately I found it somewhat depressing. I thought the British film scene was great actually. It was really when you start hitting LA that it got very depressing.
Elliot Moss
The film thing kind of comes to an end and I’m just going to jump forward a little bit now to when…
Simon Franks
Well it doesn’t come to an end. Lionsgate buy it.
Elliot Moss
Sorry Lionsgate buy it but in the sense of you now saying where my focus is going to be is less about running these businesses and more about doing, is giving back. I mean to use that phrase. When did you decide, obviously you’ve been thinking about philanthropy and what do I do with this money and what do I do with your intellect and your desire, your anger in the pursuit of justice to use that phrase for a moment. When did that translate itself into the Franks Family Foundation? When did that actually become a real thing and your next creation?
Simon Franks
Okay so this is a point I have made to other people thinking about philanthropy. So when I sold the business to Lionsgate in I think 2005, I said to myself I really want to put a portion of this into philanthropy causes but of course in the deal I had to stay working for them for a while and so I had that instinct then so I put the money there and then into a Foundation which means you can’t get it back which is really good because you know two years later maybe I would have lost my desire, you know that sense of I’m giving this away and sort of locked myself into it which was a good thing and then when I left Lionsgate which was a couple of years after the deal I’d had some other successes with some investments we had made in other start-up companies around 2000/2002 when there had been some real troubles you know in the economy and so I had quite a lot of small businesses around that were flourishing and I felt very confident financially and I thought this is it, this is the time where I want to do something for the world rather than for myself and so the Foundation’s original idea was I’m by no means a billionaire so the money I had was not going to change the world in the thought of the money but I thought I’m pretty good at innovating, I’m pretty good at organising. Why don’t I spend five years of my life totally focused on using those skills in a different circumstance and that’s how the Foundation started.
Elliot Moss
We will be talking more about that foundation in a little bit and that’s in my final chat with Simon plus we’ll be playing a track for another choice actually we’ve given Simon two choices today.
Simon Franks
I know.
Elliot Moss
He’s the arch negotiator as I’ve discovered already.
Simon Franks
How can you be interviewed on a jazz show and not have two choices?
Elliot Moss
It’s so true but don’t tell anyone else because then everyone else will want one, or two rather.
Simon Franks
I think I’ve just done that.
Elliot Moss
I think you might have done as well. So we’ll be playing a track from Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong that’s coming up after the latest traffic and travel.
It Ain’t Necessarily So, one of the song choices of the two that Simon Franks has negotiated with me that was Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong - fabulous it was too. Simon we’ve talked briefly about all sorts of things and we’ve come to this point about philanthropy. Tell me about why more entrepreneurs ought to do what you’ve gone and done. Or rather more entrepreneurial people because it’s not going to be everyone’s choice to give their money away and give their time away?
Simon Franks
Yeah I think that the problems in the developing world and we work in Bhutan, Lao, Cambodia, Nepal and a little bit in India; the problems in these countries are not going to be solved by money alone so really I think it’s about entrepreneurs who want to engage spending time there on the ground using their skills, organisation, problem solving, getting round road blocks to bring about the change that makes those countries more successful and more prosperous and I think that my Foundation has focused a lot on what we can do. Obviously we use the money to back up the ideas we have but we see ourselves like an R&D arm or a sort of venture capital firm for good ideas in the developing world and its good ideas that are going to change things. It’s not just the weight of money because I can tell you I’ve seen billions of dollars wasted sadly in the desire to make the world a better place. Actually it’s about brain power and the money not just the money.
Elliot Moss
Do people come to you and say how are you doing it? Can we get some of what you’re doing?
Simon Franks
To be honest what I’m really proud about is that some other Foundations, often people wealthier than me, have said I’m really interested in how you’re doing that, can you talk to us about that and I’ve started to do that and I’m loving that because actually I’m not a super-rich guy so my money will run out in a couple of years in terms of the Foundation unless I make more money I won’t have any more money to put in but I am hoping that there will be lots of other wealthy people out there who also really want to engage with the developing world, help to improve the situation there but actually want to do it in a clever way and hopefully they’ll ask me and say how did you do that and how would you do this and I think that excites me and hopefully that will let my Foundation live on when we’ve run out of money.
Elliot Moss
So that combination of the anger as a kid against the bully. The combination that justice sits in the middle of it. Naturally all roads start to lead to politics and you have been involved as an adviser to Ed Balls I believe in the past and you’re involved in some international development stuff as well and you stood up and been counted as one of the business leaders behind the left, what was the left and the labour party as it was then defined and it’s obviously things are shifting the whole time. What about the future for you? Is it going to involve politics do you think?
Simon Franks
Well let’s be clear about one thing, you cannot change the world if you’re not in politics. That is my view. There’s lot of things you can do to make the world a hell of a better place and people like Bill Gates are doing an amazing job of doing that but if you ultimately want to change the world you have to be in Government and you have to change the way we manage this planet of ours and personally I’ve had the view that if I am able to get into a situation of power where I can actually try and make the changes to make this world fairer, more just, more dynamic, more tolerant then I would like to do that.
Elliot Moss
And why don’t more people like you do it. Is there an issue with this whole fake news thing, is there an issue with this whole kind of issue where people talk about your lives in ways that you wouldn’t necessarily want any transparency supposedly purporting to be transparency is something else?
Simon Franks
Well I’ve started an organisation which I’m very excited about which is trying to encourage other people to come into politics. I think there’s too many career politicians who basically that’s their entire career is just to get to be an MP. It’s not about what they want to do I want to get more young people, more people with experience and success in different fields. I want great doctors, I want great scientists, I want great business people to go into politics but not for fifty years and sit on the back bench doing nothing. To go there for ten years, fifteen years give the benefit of their experience and help make this country what it should be. We are a country of brilliant, brilliant thinkers, brilliant scientists, we’ve shown our steel in world wars yet I just think that the way we’re running our country we could do such a better job and this country could be so much better than it is today.
Elliot Moss
I like that and I think we’re going to stop there because I think we’re going to vote for you if you get in, if you decide to actually stand Simon. It’s been a real pleasure talking to you just before I let you go what’s your song choice and why have you chosen it?
Simon Franks
Well the second song choice of course the first one was Ain’t Necessarily So, which I think applies to fake news and so much is not exactly what we read today which is a shame. The second choice is Gone Fishing which I am picking for a few reasons one I just think it makes me feel like human beings love each other. Listen to Bing and Louis you just think they’re best friends and also it just feels like a time when people were kind and enjoyed the simple things which I think we’ve lost a lot. But also my father loved Bing Crosby and I thank him for introducing me to that and also my grandfather, my mum’s father was also a big fan so I think there’s a family connection to it and just listening to the voices and the happiness these guys love each other and we need a lot more love.
Elliot Moss
Simon thank you so much.
That was Gone Fishing from Louis Armstrong and Bing Crosby the song choice of my Business Shaper today, Simon Franks. Someone who understood that his negativity was an attribute and enabled him to focus on what was right versus focusing on what was wrong. Someone who not only spotted opportunities but actually followed through and did something about them and someone who has always had a very strong sense of justice which has informed the way he has done business and all his philanthropic work that he continues to do today. Really brilliant, brilliant stuff. Do join me again same time same place that’s 9.00am sharp here on Jazz FM next Saturday. Meantime stay with us because coming up next its Nigel Williams.