“Obviously I’m slightly biased, it’s one of the best businesses in the world, people have got to have somewhere to live, they’ve got to have somewhere to work, they’ve got to have somewhere to shop, they’ve got to have logistics right, they’ve got to have life sciences now, new technologies are building up. It’s an amazing business to be in and any way we can encourage young people, absolutely.”
Susan Freeman
Hi, I’m Susan Freeman. Welcome back to our PropertyShe podcast series brought to you by Mishcon de Reya in association with the London Real Estate Forum, where I get to interview some of the key influencers in the world of real estate and the built environment. Today, I am delighted to welcome Harvey Soning, a well-respected veteran of the UK commercial property industry. Harvey founded James Andrew International in 1974 following the first phase of his real estate career at Peachey Property Corporation and Guardian Properties Plc. James Andrew has been involved in many major commercial real estate developments, investment acquisitions, leasing and disposals in the UK, Europe and the USA over the past 50 years. Harvey is Chairman of James Andrew RSW and James Andrew Residential which are involved in the management of over 2 million square foot of West End and City of London office buildings and commercial properties throughout the UK. James Andrew Residential manages over 8,000 luxury apartments across London. In addition to his business activities, Harvey somehow finds time to be involved in numerous charities – there are too many to mention but include the Natural History Museum, JCOSS, the RAF Museum London, the Chartered Surveyor’s Company, the Worshipful Company of Chartered Surveyors, Youth Aliyah Child Rescue, Chicken Shed Theatre Trust and Community Security Trust. Harvey was the worthy recipient of this year’s Property Week Lifetime Achievement Award. So now I am really looking forward to hearing from the legendry Harvey Soning on his 50 years in the real estate industry. Good morning Harvey and welcome to the virtual recording studio.
Harvey Soning
Good morning Susan.
Susan Freeman
So it is I think a really good point to reflect because you’re celebrating an amazing 50 years of James Andrew International and your anniversary party at Claridges last week was a huge success, I’ve never seen so many property people in one room and of course you have also been awarded the Property Week Lifetime Achievement Award this year so it’s all been happening. So does it feel like 50 years? I mean, it’s a, it’s a long time and obviously you had time before that in the real estate industry before you started the business?
Harvey Soning
Susan I have absolutely no idea where the 50 years has gone. But this last year, I mean it may as well have been February and now it’s November you know, it flies and flies by. It may have something to do with my age or having a good time. I think when you are having a good time it moves quickly. If you are not having a good time it goes very slowly. No it’s fine.
Susan Freeman
No actually that’s a very good point because you do seem to really enjoy what you are doing and the Harvey Soning laugh you know, you can’t imitate that. So how did you come to be in real estate? You know, was it a family business? How did you get into real estate in the first place?
Harvey Soning
I go back to the end of the War, my father was in the Royal Airforce. He came out of the Airforce with £300, obviously present value of money that was quite substantial. He had a friend called George Farrow who was an accountant, an RAF accountant in the Airforce. They both came out the same time, dad went into the retail business which then was the foundation of a property business of the families and George went to an estate agency in Petts Wood in Kent. Roll on 15-18 years, I’m 15 or 14 and three quarters, diabolical report from school, sending reams of paper full of aeroplane drawings and warships and the Headmaster said, ‘It’s a waste of time sending him back next term, try and get him a job at Handley Page the aircraft factory in Cricklewood’ – many people listening to this won’t remember that but there was a big aircraft factory in Cricklewood; now housing estate – ‘and see if you can get him a job there so he can draw aeroplanes for the rest of his life’. My father had other ideas, phoned his friend George Farrow and George said, ‘send him to me’. That was very easy to say, ‘send him to me’, we lived in Willesden, North West London, George Farrow was in Petts Wood in Kent so 5.30 in the morning I used to have to get up and this is a habit that has remained with me for all my life, much to my wife, Angela’s complete discontent, Willesden Green Station, Willesden Green Charing Cross, Charing Cross to Petts Wood. I was earning I think £18.50 a week and about at least £9 of that went on to the fares but I learnt the business. And that’s how I got the love for real estate and what is it, 63/64 years later I’m still in it and 80% I love, 20% is a pain in the arse but there you go. Easier than being a lawyer.
Susan Freeman
Yeah, at the time you probably have preferred to go to the aircraft factory and drawn pictures of…
Harvey Soning
Yeah absolutely, I didn’t have a choice.
Susan Freeman
So you started James Andrew International in 1974 and it was a really turbulent time, we’d had the 1973 oil crisis, inflation was over 24% in 1975, there were liquidity problems, people couldn’t pay their loans. How was it starting a business then?
Harvey Soning
Well it was the secondary banking crash after the Second World War, the company I was with unfortunately like many other big, big companies went under and I thought to myself, well you know, I had three children at the time and I’ve got to support them, I saw all these estate agents making plenty of money out of the property companies I’d been associated with, I’ll give this a go for a couple of years, two or three years and then I’ll be back in the property business you know, the development business. 50 years later I’m still doing it and it’s been a great ride.
Susan Freeman
And I mean you know, it’s a difficult time, people didn’t have, have money, how did you go about building a client base?
Harvey Soning
Well reflecting and looking back I think it’s much better to start a business at the bottom than starting it at the top, at least that’s what many people have told me. You know, we could really only go one way, my first off was God, six flights up, no lift in Bond Street in a room given to me by friends above their offices. I used to walk along Bond Street you know, every other shop was empty I mean you know, we complain today about the retail crisis, that’s nothing compared to those days and you know, it went from there. We come on to clients afterwards but it started and we started to give a service which I think we’ve continued as best we can which has enabled us to be here for the 50 years.
Susan Freeman
So how did you go about finding business?
Harvey Soning
Well you were at the party, I think my dear friend Gerald Ronson made a wonderful speech to congratulate us on the 50 years and he said in his speech the first deal that we did for Heron which was one of the first deals we did was to sell a piece of land behind a petrol garage of his in Harrow so that’s how it started. I can’t even remember what the commission was but it wasn’t thousands I can tell you and one thing leads to another.
Susan Freeman
But it’s quite something, I mean he said you know, you’ve been friends for 58 years you know which is, is pretty amazing but to actually keep a business relationship going for that period of time with all you know, the competition and everything, I mean what is the secret to just keeping those people close to you and providing a service that you know, they could go to other people for?
Harvey Soning
I think you keep a personal friendship and a business relationship separate. It’s the word, you know, if you are going to say you are going to do something or you are going to sell something for X or you’re going to buy something for Y, you have to keep your word. There’s no good saying you’re going to sell it for X and it’s hundreds of thousands of pounds less which you really knew all along, you told the truth. 99% of the time it works and the 1% it doesn’t work, well you probably didn’t want that business anyhow or that client.
Susan Freeman
Yes, often though people don’t want to hear the truth do they and they are sort of seduced by…
Harvey Soning
Well it’s not the truth I think it’s more the facts of life Susan, they don’t like what they’re hearing but you can’t take on business which I can’t do. If I am quoting a price to sell something or lease it and I know I can’t do it what is the point. I can’t waste my time or especially my executives’ time so we tell the truth or we try to. And it’s a moving target as well you know, you can quote a price to sell something and with luck it moves up during that period or you get three people fighting over it or something happens, somebody invades somebody or, or there’s a disaster and the price goes down so it’s a moving target.
Susan Freeman
And so, I mean obviously Gerald Ronson was a very early client, how did you go about just building that network and meeting people?
Harvey Soning
I have an old saying, I think life is 99% luck but there, there’s that 1% of actually being able to touch it and see the luck. I’ve been lucky. No I obviously did something correct in my last life but you know, one client has always lead to another client. I mean I met Sir Martin Sorrell when he was working with the late Jimmy Gulliver, that’s 45 years ago and when he left Jimmy Gulliver he took his next job and then eventually to Saatchi, he called me in and said, ‘Do you remember we’ve met on a particular project and I am now at Saatchi and Saatchi, can you come and see me, we’ve got a couple of property problems to solve’. So that was, one thing leads to another. Martin introduced us to Colegate-Parmolive and we did a huge transaction for them in Manchester and have remained friends so as I say, if you do a good job, it leads to another job.
Susan Freeman
And I mean there have been obviously so many property deals over 50 years; do any sort of stand out because either they went so well or they didn’t go quite as anticipated and you were able to, to sort it out?
Harvey Soning
Heron Tower New York springs to mind immediately. What a lesson that was dealing with, with you know, the New York property world, the New York lawyers etcetera, etcetera. We’ve done some amazing lettings in this country. Spain, Portugal, Prague recently acquiring buildings for clients. Lots of work in the USA. It’s just every deal is exciting in its own way and has its own problems obviously that need to be solved. There’s no two the same.
Susan Freeman
And I am sort of always intrigued by the New York real estate market because it just seemed to have all these like really big personalities. I mean doing the Heron Tower deal, was it so different from doing a deal in London?
Harvey Soning
Chalk and cheese, absolutely no comparison. A whole different set of rules. Planning, the construction, the leasing, completely absolutely different. You have to learn very, very quickly and we did. Heron Tower was the first one, we had 461 Fifth Avenue, I think it was 80 East 57 and West 57 you know, many followed on and we did a lot of business on the East Coast from Boston down to… and Washington DC in particular through to Florida and then on the West Coast as well and even those, each State has its own laws which you have to… most States are bigger than England anyhow, the United Kingdom, and you have to learn very quickly the individual laws of the States.
Susan Freeman
Yeah that’s challenging but it does seem that New York still has the I don’t know, I suppose the, the sort of dynasties, the big personalities whereas the UK property market doesn’t necessarily have you know, the big colourful personalities that we used to have.
Harvey Soning
There are young personalities in the UK coming up. Maybe slightly under the covers as opposed to the personalities you and I knew in the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s were you know, very flamboyant but there are young people coming through because you know, we still have to have homes built, offices built or refurbished in these days - we can’t pull them down - shopping centres etcetera, etcetera. So there’s plenty of personalities and there’s perhaps yeah, New York is brasher than the UK, always has been.
Susan Freeman
So the personal relationships and personal service you know, seem to be key to the way you’ve always operated and you know, at a time where everybody is sort of getting into social media and actually building relationships on, on social media. Do you think those personal relationships are still as important as they were when you started?
Harvey Soning
Well there was no social media when I started okay. Question answered. Look I’m a dinosaur as are many of my older clients, we speak to each other, we have a drink in the evening, we have dinner or lunch on a Sunday with the wives. We have a personal relationship. I’m not a Zoom person but it’s business today so it has to be used and not abused.
Susan Freeman
And actually providing the sort of personal relationship, does that involve like being available 24/7?
Harvey Soning
Well remember when I started there were no mobile phones. Mobile phones and what we’re doing on the internet has enabled you to be available 24 hours. I mean I’m there for an emergency of course and good new, not only bad news but we’ve always given a personal service, all, me and my staff and I communicate more with my executives than I almost do with the clients because before we make any decision or advise a client, I am consulted.
Susan Freeman
And I wondered how you managed during lockdown because we suddenly had I mean, you know, you’ve been through a lot of property crashes and things; nobody had had to deal with anything like Covid and lockdown. How did you keep the business going when people were locked down?
Harvey Soning
Simple answer, with very great difficulty. I mean you can’t show a building to someone that wants to be a tenant not that there were too many potential tenants around in those days but property management, separate business to leasing, buying, selling etcetera. Not a glamorous part of the business but I’ve always had property management. First of all it enables you to… one of your previous questions, I am in contact or we are in contact with our clients, we are managing their property, we’re leasing them, we’re rent reviewing them etcetera etcetera, repairs. So that business kept my business and many of our competition business going. We still had to collect rent or do deals with the tenants on not paying rents. The buildings had to be maintained, cleaning, security etcetera so that was a big part of keeping out business alive during those, well it was nearly two years of pandemic and then it all came back to life again. As you know, it’s very similar to the legal profession.
Susan Freeman
Yeah, we had to keep going in extraordinary circumstances.
Harvey Soning
But property management to anybody starting an estate agency today I would strongly advise them to, not the glamorous part but if you buy a building for a client, try and get the management if you are capable of doing it.
Susan Freeman
Yeah, I think that’s really good advice. And, I mean how’s that period of, of lockdown had any lasting effect do you think on the way, on the way you do business or have things sort of effectively bounced back to how they were?
Harvey Soning
Well a major part of our business is dealing in offices both sides of the Atlantic. Immediately after and for the first couple of years as you well know in your profession, people were not going back to work. Particularly difficult in our business because you know, how can you show an office building to a tenant if the other side can’t open the building because they’re not working, how can you show a shopping centre to a potential investor? Improved dramatically in the last year or so you know, people are going back to work especially in the winter, keep warm. No, it was very, very difficult with people not working. Even in your profession when we were trying to buy buildings for clients and you had two lawyers and a client and us if you like and the other side’s surveyors on the Zoom calls, I mean you know there was no, no personal touch, you couldn’t appeal to the people, you couldn’t guide them or direct them or take instructions without having to go off the Zoom and go on a telephone, it was a nightmare. Now we are back to in many cases of sitting around a table in the lawyer’s offices and thrashing it out.
Susan Freeman
Yeah I mean and it does raise the question doesn’t it, how you know, younger people building their careers learn if they’re not sitting you know in a meeting or sort of following somebody around and learning.
Harvey Soning
Or around the coffee machine or in the, in the pub or the wine bar in the evening. There’s no better way to learn than make a mistake and get a good bollocking is there and how else you know, you can’t do that by Zoom.
Susan Freeman
No its more difficult and it, it’s an interesting point actually trying to build a relationship with you know, with somebody when you’re, when you’re doing it over Zoom you don’t necessarily know what their sense of humour is and you can get it very wrong.
Harvey Soning
You’re talking from experience, no comment.
Susan Freeman
Exactly. So let’s talk about MIPIM because I mean you’ve been going to MIPIM since the beginning and every year apart from the lockdown year when I seem to remember at the pre-MIPIM party you were planning to go anyway. What was MIPIM like for you when it started because initially the larger agents didn’t support it and didn’t go and you were an early adopter?
Harvey Soning
The larger legal practices were you know the international legal practices. Yes it was compact, what were there 5,000 people there; mostly French and German.
Susan Freeman
I think it was 2,000 in the first year.
Harvey Soning
Okay, I’ll never argue with you Susan. Between 2,000 and 5,000 the first, second and third years, mainly German and French if you remember, I think you were there on the second or third, very few Brits but the Brits that were there started to do business with the Germans funny enough, you know there’s famous stories of, of a German in the bunker asking a British lawyer for a good lawyer and he said, ‘I am what can I do for you?’ and you know, they’ve been buying properties and selling them for them ever since so yeah, that was… it’s all about the contacts you make when you walk along the 20.16 as you and I have done on many occasions together, lunch time, evening, you bump into people. It’s a relaxed atmosphere to do business, you don’t go to MIPIM to do business, if you do, it ain’t going to happen and you are going to come back disappointed but when we review the year with our guys and girls in the office, they say, ‘Oh you know that business we’re doing or have done, that started in MIPIM because I met X, Y, Z, I sat next to him at lunch or dinner, or her’. So it’s a, it’s a, I call it a festival of real estate. It’s a party of real estate and you’re there to do business and make contacts and learn about what is going on in other countries.
Susan Freeman
Yeah. I think at its peak it was up to about 30,000 people which, and you couldn’t walk in the street and I think now it’s…
Harvey Soning
Quality not quantity now.
Susan Freeman
Yes and you’ve always been so enthusiastic about it you know I know because we’ve travelled to MIPIM together and I…
Harvey Soning
Well you mean I’ve waited for you at the airport?
Susan Freeman
Yeah I know. This is where I get the apology in for…
Harvey Soning
Duty free shopping.
Susan Freeman
Yes, always being late but it’s always been a pleasure to go there with you because you’re so upbeat about it. A lot of people go and sort of say, ‘Oh you know, another year and.,.’ you know it’s difficult and you’ve always you know, your party on the Thursday night has always been one of the you know best attended events and I hope you are going to be doing it again next year?
Harvey Soning
Yeah we will, with our partners as you know, UTB. Yeah we certainly will. Apart from this year which of course was our 50th, it’s our entertaining of our year.
Susan Freeman
And I don’t know how you manage it because you have so many people there, there must be a lot of people that you have to, you know, you can’t have everybody?
Harvey Soning
That’s a fact of life, we can you know, we invite our clients and we try to please everybody but we certainly we don’t I don’t think.
Susan Freeman
Well I think it’s the only MIPIM party at which you get this amazing smoked salmon that is flown in from London and you have to get there early because everybody is sort of milling around trying to get to it.
Harvey Soning
I’d like to be a guest at the party, I think I’ve only had the smoke salmon bagel once there. There you go.
Susan Freeman
I can believe that. So I mean you’ve mentioned the foreign investors and you know I know you act for a lot of foreign investors. What are you hearing from them now? I mean is London still the place that they want to invest or are they you know, waiting? How are things going?
Harvey Soning
In reverse your question, they waited. We now have stability whether you like the Government or not, we have a stable five years. They don’t only invest in London, they invest in the UK. We still have the finest lease system in the world for a landlord. You acting on behalf of tenants may disagree. It’s now, when I started, it was a 99 year lease then it went down, down, down, normal 20/25 years for many, many years. Now we’re at 10 years with a break at 5. We’ve still got the fully repairing and insuring which most foreign investors don’t understand but appreciate. I’m afraid Europe is in… next year will be in the course of elections – I won’t mention each country. There’s instability in Europe. We don’t need to talk about America, what’s going to happen there but there will be stability but whether foreigners will want to invest at the present time is another matter so there’s very few places for hefty money to go to and we are living in one of the places that is preferred and we also, as somebody in Tokyo said to me not too long ago when the rumour was or the, the word on the street was all the banks were going to leave for Paris, Dublin, Frankfurt etcetera, is that when you shake hands and the Japanese Director of a bank said to me, ‘Harvey big difference, when you shake hands London deal done. You shake hands anywhere else in the world it’s beginning of deal’. So we have this trust in the City of London, call it 600 or 700 years and they can’t take that away from us and whatever Government we have, whether it be Labour, Conservative etcetera, the City is trusted throughout the world. So there’s I think some reasons why the investment market is, is getting back to where it was again. Another couple of years but there’s certainly, we’ve seen tremendous interest.
Susan Freeman
Okay well that is, that is good news.
Harvey Soning
I think one of the problems is there’s not enough to sell actually at the moment. The, the vendors are holding back and they’re not under pressure – you probably know more than I do – from the banking world as they were in 9, 10. 11.
Susan Freeman
So yes, there seems to be a sort of still a mismatch of expectations in terms of the pricing.
Harvey Soning
Absolutely and, and there’s an old saying, ‘There’s only one good building is a let building’ and certainly the take up of space, quality, quality space not unfortunately, not so good space is, well certainly better than the European cities and even the US major cities in London, it’s been phenomenal and the rents achieved in the West End and City, I don’t have to explain to anybody listening to this, you wouldn’t have dreamt of three or four years ago.
Susan Freeman
Yeah so quality space is being taken up, I suppose the problem is you know what we do with the office space that people don’t want as offices.
Harvey Soning
Well because of the environmental problems we’re having you can’t pull most the older, the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s buildings down and they will have to be converted into whether it be offices, difficult with what is required, ceiling height, terraces etcetera, etcetera to. They’ll be converted to residential, student accommodation, life sciences you know, gradually because we can’t build any more land in this island and planning permission notwithstanding all the Government saying it’s much easier, it’s no easier as far as I, we’re, we’re concerned so they will be, they will be made use of the buildings.
Susan Freeman
Yeah and I suppose there are just I mean, as in New York, you know there will just be some buildings that won’t convert to residential or, or student or won’t be appropriate for life sciences so they will have to go.
Harvey Soning
Well then the authorities will have to be persuaded that notwithstanding some of the legislation or pending legislation, these buildings have got to be taken down but that will evolve I think.
Susan Freeman
So I was just think, as you said, you started the business in a period of complete economic turmoil so you must be better than most equipped to deal with the economic cycles and the crashes because for young people coming into the industry who’d only known you know prices going up and things going well, actually having to deal with you know, a crash, having to deal with the problems we had during lockdown is very different.
Harvey Soning
If I go back to ’74, it was a great question. As I said at the beginning it was the first crash of any significance since the Second World War. The bankers didn’t know how to cope, they had a lifeboat which they called the banking lifeboat to save not the real estate industry but to safe the secondary banks that were in trouble. This was the big five in those days and they were almost successful but because of the secondary banking crash most of the borrowings or lending of the secondary banks was to real estate and whether it be to some major companies or a young person in the street building a house, then 90% of their loans was to the real estate industry in one form or the other and as they crashed, the clients crashed with them and it was a new world, nobody knew quite how to deal with it and it did go on for four or five years and then we started, everything started to get better again and up, up, up again till the next crash but we were more, the world or the legal world, your world and the banking world were much easier to cope with than the first ’74, the really big crash.
Susan Freeman
No it’s interesting because I remember when I started at the original Brecher’s.
Harvey Soning
Careful you’re showing your age.
Susan Freeman
Yeah I know but I didn’t know anything about real estate and I couldn’t understand why all the clients were receivers and liquidators you know, I must not really been paying attention. So if you’ve been through that then any crash that you know comes along, you know…
Harvey Soning
Well everyone is different, everyone is caused by a different situation but yes the basics are there. The banks now can handle it and don’t get in to the problems they had with the LTB etcetera, they are much more cautious today and of course there’s legislation, there’s Government regulation, Bank of England regulations - I’m talking about this country not other countries – that control the situation.
Susan Freeman
So I don’t know how you find time for this Harvey but apart from all your business involvements you do a lot of charitable work and you seem to do it very you know, quietly and under the radar and I think we won’t have time to talk about all the charities that you support because there’s a long list but maybe we can you know, we can talk a little bit about some of them. How did you come to be involved with the RAF Museum?
Harvey Soning
So Lloyd Dorfman, a very good friend and again, old, old, old client from I think we took the second Travelex for them and how that business grew, took me to a reception at the RAF Museum, a cocktail party and I met one of the executives of the museum and said, ‘My late father God rest his soul, passed away maybe 20 years before that, was in the RAF and I had his RAF issue bible and he’d written in it every base he was at in the War etcetera, etcetera, etcetera would they be interested in seeing it’. They said, ‘Absolutely’. I sent it to them, we had it professionally photographed for the family, sent it to them and they came back and said, ‘Harvey this is a great example of one of the religious beneficiaries in the War, every religion had its own bible and we would really like to you know, have this’. So the family donated it to them and at the present time behind the Lancaster Bomber in the Hendon Museum there’s a showcase of memorabilia, Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan serving RAF personnel and my late father’s mini bible is on display with it. And then I got more and more involved with them and it’s a great pleasure, they are fantastic people, wonderful museum. I urge anybody that hasn’t been there and would like to go, contact me or Susan; we’ll arrange it for a private visit. But that’s the RAF Museum. The National History Museum, 30 years ago – I won’t mention any names – I got a call from one of the trustees saying they were buying a property in London, again I’m not going to mention where it was, they were a little concerned or he was that they were over paying for the property could I take a look at it. Took a look at it and again, I can’t go into details but I saved them 2 million pound in those days on the purchase price, that’s the good news. The bad news every time they’ve got a property transaction or a property problem now they contact me and it’s a pleasure to work with, great people, again most amazing institution.
Susan Freeman
Well fantastic to be able to save them so much money.
Harvey Soning
Don’t forget I’m talking about the money we saved, not present value of money, I think you can add a nought to it in today’s value.
Susan Freeman
That’s fantastic. And then the, the Worshipful Company of Surveyors?
Harvey Soning
Chartered Surveyors, chartered surveyors.
Susan Freeman
Chartered Surveyors.
Harvey Soning
They are also celebrating nearly 50 years of existence. I was introduced getting on for 10 years ago. I thought it was an amazing institution, especially for the industry but I got very interested when they started talking to me about the bursary scheme which was in its infancy 8 years ago say, of taking young people that had no chance of becoming involved in the real estate industry because of their financial positions at the time and helping them go through the three years of university to learn about the profession and to progress in it and it’s been quite amazing. We have had over 30 students, I think of that maybe 10 have already graduated; one student James Andrew were supporting for 3 years, graduated with Honours and is now in a major firm, been offered a position in one of the major firms. We are now taking on another young lady from the East End of London and we’ll put her through university and as I say, the bursary scheme has got over 30 young people going through the uni’s with a future in the real estate industry. To me, it’s the best thing I’ve ever done.
Susan Freeman
And I, yeah I think that’s fantastic because one of the things we talk quite a lot about in this podcast is you know, the difficulty of getting people from you know different backgrounds to find out about real estate and to come into real estate because we don’t you know, always tell our stories terribly well and it is really good to hear about this scheme. I mean do you think there’s more you know, as an industry that we should be doing to you know encourage this sort of thing?
Harvey Soning
The answer is yes. Of course we have Land Aid which does a fantastic job with raising money for people on the streets. I’m also slightly involved with that which is an amazing real estate professions joint effort. We’d love to have more companies, individuals being interested in the whole of a student or part of a student to put them through university – please call me, everybody knows my phone number right. Of course we should, every industry should and then there’s apprenticeship schemes etcetera, but unfortunately in troubled times like we’re in now or coming out of now, it’s not the first thought of people to help young people but I think it’s improving.
Susan Freeman
Yeah I mean it’s, it’s just so important to you know get people in from different backgrounds who think differently, you know, want to do things differently so that, I mean it’s fantastic that you’re involved with that.
Harvey Soning
Susan it’s called the future.
Susan Freeman
It is. Well not everybody thinks about the future in the same way. And you must get called upon quite a lot by young people you know, coming into the real estate industry, not quite sure what to do, where to start. What advice do you, do you give to them?
Harvey Soning
First of all the small business of ours every week, every fortnight we have at least one or two young people, especially in half term, end of term sitting, learning, listening, making the tea, doing the filing like everybody who starts in the business. There’s no way with all the lectures they have to listen to etcetera, you’ve got to kick the tyres, you’ve got to be in a business. Obviously I’m slightly biased, it’s one of the best businesses in the world, people have got to have somewhere to live, they’ve got to have somewhere to work, they’ve got to have somewhere to shop, they’ve got to have logistics right, they’ve got to have life sciences now, new technologies are building up. It’s an amazing business to be in and any way we can encourage young people, absolutely.
Susan Freeman
No and I just don’t quite understand, I am absolutely with you, you know, it is an amazing business, it affects everything that people do in their lives, why don’t people know more about it. I mean we know about it because we work in the industry but you know if you go out and talk to people.
Harvey Soning
Yes RICS under new management is spreading the word, I am very impressed with some of the work they are doing today.
Susan Freeman
That’s terrific and has anybody been a role model or an inspiration you know, to you sort of whether in the you know early days you know, when you started or just sort of you know, progressing through your career?
Harvey Soning
Harold Samuel, Land Securities, I have to mention Gerald Ronson, Martin Sorrell, Lloyd Dorfman, there have been many, many, many and then going back to your start in professional life, of course David Brecher was quite amazing and sorely missed and, and Valerie his daughter, sorely, sorely missed and they were great, great… David in particular was a great inspiration to me. You weren’t allowed to feel low when David was about, you had to be, you had to smile, he wouldn’t tolerate anybody being low. And Henry his brother, I mean they, amazing time.
Susan Freeman
But they were the first, they were the first I suppose networking lawyers who actually saw their role as you know, a bit more than just…
Harvey Soning
Absolutely so you know you asked for an inspiration, that’s part of the inspiration.
Susan Freeman
Yeah. And we touched on family but I think we need to talk a little bit about the Soning dynasty because you’ve mentioned Angela and four sons and I think eleven grandchildren. How many of the family are actually in real estate?
Harvey Soning
Eldest son Andrew is in real estate with me in the business. Third son Robert is in the residential business, construction business so I’ve got two of the four, the other two there is a relationship, Jamie is in the cleaning and security business so there is obviously a relationship with real estate and Damian is in other businesses that all have a particular well, mind you everybody’s got, got a relationship with real estate as we were just saying haven’t they. And of the eleven grandchildren, two grandsons have graduated both from Nottingham Trent, one is with a Shoreditch estate agency on the investment side and doing well and the other one is with a residential construction company, so the tradition is continuing.
Susan Freeman
That is absolutely fantastic and you know it was really great that Angela and various family members were in the audience at the Property Week Awards when I was lucky enough to present the award to you.
Harvey Soning
You kidnapped me didn’t you. That was one of the great moments of my life, what an honour thank you and to Property Week obviously. I, as you probably know, with the previous editor, Liz Hanson we got together over a drink, I think it was a MIPIM actually just referring back to MIPIM and we said we were one of the only industries that didn’t have a Hall of Fame if you recall and well, that’s over 10 years ago we started the Hall of Fame.
Susan Freeman
Is that how it started?
Harvey Soning
That’s how it started yeah, Liz and I, because I think it was at the time of the Oscar ceremony in, in Los Angeles and thought we should have an Oscars for the real estate industry and we’ve had some wonderful, as you know you’ve been to most of them, wonderful awards given. Unfortunately some of them are not here anymore but that helps us remember them as well.
Susan Freeman
So Harvey as we wind down, any thoughts about…
Harvey Soning
Are you saying I can go back to work Susan?
Susan Freeman
You can go back to work shortly. Any thoughts about next year, what you’re planning?
Harvey Soning
Well I am confident, as I said before, because of the stability that we find ourselves in as opposed to other countries, I am very confident about the profession we’re in. Heartbroken by the times we’re living in, the Wars that are going on you know, for many, many years we thought that was a thing of the past, Second World War that was it no more Wars. Mind you they thought that the First World War, they said was the War to end all Wars. Maybe it’s what human’s do, it still doesn’t make me happy.
Susan Freeman
No that’s true and you just have to soldier on regardless and focus on, on sort of life really. So that’s probably a good place to end Harvey.
Harvey Soning
Well it’s not a happy place to end mentioning the state of some of what’s going on in the world but you know, we’re here to tell the tale and we will continue to do so.
Susan Freeman
I think you are absolutely right. So I am going to let you go back to work and…
Harvey Soning
Thank you Susan.
Susan Freeman
…and thank you so much.
Harvey Soning
It’s been a pleasure to talk to you and it’s been a bigger pleasure being good, good friends for well, what is it, 40 years? I can’t remember but anyhow it’s a lifetime friendship and I appreciate it.
Susan Freeman
Thank you Harvey for some fascinating insights from over 50 years in real estate. You really are an inspiration to all of us. I am fortunate to count you as a friend, I know first-hand just how kind, generous and supportive you are. I have also learnt an awful lot about networking from you. So that’s it for now. I hope you enjoyed today’s conversation. Please join us for the next PropertyShe podcast interview coming very soon. The PropertyShe podcast is brought to you by Mishcon de Reya in association with the London Real Estate Forum and can be found at mishcon.com/propertyshe along with all our interviews and programme notes. The podcasts are also available to subscribe to on your Apple podcast app and on Spotify and whichever podcast platform you use. Do continue to subscribe and let us have your feedback and comments and most importantly, suggestions for future guests and of course you can continue to follow on LinkedIn and on Twitter @propertyshe for a very regular commentary on all things real estate, Prop Tech and the built environment. See you again soon.