The Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions. Conversations on the legal topics affecting businesses and individuals today.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
In this episode, what is philanthropy? How are women leading in philanthropic giving? And what have been the generational shifts in charitable giving?
Hello and welcome to this Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions podcast. I’m Jessica Scheps, an Associate in the Tax and Wealth Planning team at Mishcon de Reya and I’m joined by Rebecca McMurray, who is a Director of Development at NPT UK. NPT UK provides donor advice funds, otherwise known as DAFs, to donors in the UK and those around the world, who wish to base their philanthropy from the UK. NPT UK is an independent charity driven by its mission to make philanthropy more convenient and efficient for donors. NPT offers giving vehicles and expertise to philanthropists, family offices and wealth managers from one of the world’s leading financial centres. NPT UK is affiliated with the National Philanthropic Trust, which is the largest independent provider of DAFs in the United States.
So, Rebecca, philanthropy for private clients is an increasingly relevant topic. Can you help us understand what it is and why it’s important for women.
Rebecca McMurray
Of course, I’d love to. So the first thing to say is that philanthropy in actual fact means ‘love of humankind.’ It’s really the desire to promote the welfare of others but in essence, it’s when we think about it, it’s the concept of using private wealth for public good. It’s existed for centuries and exists in many different forms around the world right from people giving in their communities and supporting children through school, through to the largescale philanthropy that we’ve seen increasingly in the world today. And really, I think over the last ten to fifteen years, we’ve seen an increased uptick in interest and engagement in philanthropy. So, for example, the climate movement has really started to engage and interest people in how they can make a difference through their giving and there’s also been this increased visibility of philanthropy and then of course we can’t forget the impact of the ESG agenda and how people are thinking about using their finances in different ways and structuring their wealth in different ways and I definitely think that that has helped to engage people and think more about how they can give philanthropically.
I often like to think of philanthropy for wealthy individuals through the prism of time, treasure and talent and I think this is particularly interesting when you think about women and how they engage in philanthropy because we definitely see them engaging across that whole sphere. So, when we think about time, for example, women often like to join a board, get involved in giving their time and expertise to a particular charitable organisation. When we think about treasure, it’s obviously the gifting of, usually, capital, often in the form of grants but sometimes in the form of loans and other ways of giving, it’s becoming increasingly common now and then finally, their talent, so that can be things like contributing their professional expertise, sometimes their personal and professional networks as well.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
Are you able to talk about some female philanthropists that you’ve worked for specifically?
Rebecca McMurray
Yeah, of course. So, whilst I’m at the NPT UK now, I spent the last ten to twelve years actually working hand in hand with philanthropists, supporting charitable organisations. So, I’ve had a really interesting and quite an incredible insight into how people tend to give their philanthropy and the different things that have motivated and inspired them along the way. So, here’s just a couple of examples. One particular cause that will always be close to my heart and an initiative I worked on was a global network of women who had come together to support a larger international organisation and specifically to provide funding for women’s issues. So, they were active through kind of learning, different events and there was a bi-annual international conference where we brought together women from all over the world to really engage with that cause and to meet their peers in doing so as well. And then obviously there was the financial element that they were gifting varying amounts depending on their interest and level of engagement and then that funding was then pooled and gone to support different causes around the world.
Another philanthropist that I worked with was really passionate about bringing her children and getting her children involved in her philanthropy and again, this is a particular trend that we see in women as they are growing in their engagement in philanthropy, and she was supporting some work in West Africa and actually brought her children along to see the project that their family had made possible over the years that they had supported it and she is also a great example of how she was getting involved in her time and talent as well and she became very active in organising an annual gala event as well.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
That’s definitely echoing what we’re seeing in that philanthropists are often involving the next generation and making sure that their philanthropic goals are sort of carried down and they’re bringing their children up with that same mindset. So that’s really interesting to see that you had the same experience.
So, why do you think philanthropy is significant in this private client context and what have you seen recently in terms of developments in the philanthropic space?
Rebecca McMurray
So, there’s definitely been this growing trend of private giving and we’re seeing more wealthy individuals engaging in philanthropy and you know we’ve already touched on some of the reasons for why this is happening and more and more we’re seeing that ultra-high net worths believe that they should be using their wealth for good and are wanting to prioritise social impact, for example in their investments. I think some of this has come about as a result of the pandemic, you know, and in the UK for example, we saw a huge surge in people getting involved and wanting to give but I think we also saw a really interesting dynamic where it was, it pushed people to really consider their succession planning. There’s a individual that I worked with in my previous life, if you like, who was the male head of a household and through the pandemic, we really saw a generational shift going through their family foundation where the next generation so, his daughter in this case, coming to the fore within the family foundation and really being given more opportunity to engage across the board and really shape the direction and approach that that foundation was taking. Maybe that would happen without the pandemic but I definitely think that that’s a trend that we’ve been seeing in the world of private wealth since that time.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
I think it’s a really good point that the pandemic accelerated a lot of people thinking about their futures, the good they wanted to do in the context of their general succession planning and helping those less fortunate than themselves.
Rebecca McMurray
Yeah, definitely. The other trend that we saw throughout the pandemic was this shift towards more trust based philanthropy. This did exist before the pandemic hit but I think there was a greater evolution towards this and much more interest on the part of philanthropists who engaged in this way and really, trust based giving or philanthropy is based on you as, an individual, or I, as a philanthropist, really trusting the entity and the charity that they’re supporting and knowing that they are in the best place to make the decisions. It’s also an approach that I think is accelerating because of the next generation and how they’ve started to really think about their philanthropy as well and sometimes the power dynamics that can exist with that as well.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
And so they’re relinquishing control in some way but allowing the charity to identify that they know better who they’re supporting and sort of invest their time in that way.
Rebecca McMurray
Yeah, exactly. So, I think it’s all in the word “trust” so, it’s you know, yes, doing your due diligence on the charity, you know, for example, engaging with the board, learning more about their strategy, understanding their finances and how they’re approaching that but also then giving them sometimes unrestricted funding as opposed to grant based funding for a specific activity, giving them this unrestricted funding to kind of go and spend it as they best see fit as an organisation. And I think this is also interesting when you think about the idea of strategic philanthropy, you know, and this is definitely something that we see through the clients that we look after at NPT UK in how they’re thinking about impact and measurement and wanting to give more to a specific area and cause as opposed to maybe distributing their funding more widely.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
Mishcon de Reya Women in Wealth Initiative is an initiative we set up that supports female holders of private wealth and their advisors and anyone associated in this sphere. In the context of Women in Wealth, I was wondering why you think it’s important that wealth holders should discuss philanthropy and why is it so important right now?
Rebecca McMurray
Yeah, it’s a really interesting one and it’s something that I feel deeply engaged in and passionate about so it’s exciting to be able to work with the Women in Wealth Initiative. So, women, as I’m sure listeners will know, have always been active in philanthropy and there’s some really fantastic examples if you look back over history of how women have contributed back into society so, really we have to be clear, women’s philanthropy is nothing new but what we are really seeing is that female philanthropists are increasingly being accepted and acknowledged within the philanthropic space, they’re becoming much more visible and active in their philanthropy and in their role as active agents of social change and really this is mirroring what we’re also seeing in the private wealth space in terms of the decision making power that they have. What’s also interesting I think by, I think it’s 2025, about 60% of Britain’s wealth will be in the hands of women and that’s a stat that comes for a recent WealthiHer report I know that Mishcon de Reya are involved with WealthiHer, which is a brilliant initiative.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
Yes, yes, I’ve been to one of their events a couple of months ago and it was excellent.
Rebecca McMurray
Yeah, I think I remember to an International Women’s Day event this year, where there was a fantastic line-up of women involved in philanthropy and social change kind of talking about the collaborative power that women can have when they all come together for a cause.
So, one of the things I think is particularly fascinating when you think about female givers versus, in a binary way, their male counterparts, is that they’re more likely to give philanthropically and they’re also more likely to give more. They are also interestingly, thinking more to the longer term and thinking about philanthropy in a very valued based way versus a more reactionary response to philanthropy or being asked to give. We talked about this a little bit already but in terms of collaboration, women tend to be a little bit more collective in how they approach giving, so there’s some fantastic examples out there of how women have come together for their philanthropy, so there’s the Maverick Collective which is an astonishing feat of women who are supporting reproductive rights of women globally and then there’s Women Moving Millions which is also a really strategic way of women coming together to advance philanthropic causes.
Women also interestingly, tend to champion the underserved a lot more, so they’re really being that strategic philanthropist that we were talking about before and thinking where are the needs that are currently not being met and how can they really help to meet those and again, I’ve got the example of a philanthropist that used to fund an organisation I worked with and along with her husband actually but she was very much kind of in the decision making role with their philanthropy, who had requested some information for me and wanted to understand the causes that weren’t currently being funded so, what were the areas that we were really struggling to find funding for and as it turned out, it was a project supporting survivors of sexual violence in, I think it was somewhere in East Africa and that was the cause that she ended up deciding to engage with and support and I think that was, yes because it was a women’s issue maybe but also because it was an area that we were really struggling to find funding for. Yeah, so I think that’s an interesting dynamic we see.
And then it’s also about the big picture, so they want to know, yes, what they, their money can do but also how it can really help to elevate and meet broader objectives through their giving.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
So, Rebecca, when you’ve mentioned causes that affect women, one of those that immediately sprung to my mind was the fact that Roe versus Wade was overturned and you know that’s the ramifications across the US but also, you know, felt here in the UK and the concern that something that has been a right of women and a right to choose, you know, has been eroded and I’m wondering if you’ve seen any impact in women philanthropists wanting to sort of support and you know take control back?
Rebecca McMurray
Yeah, I definitely think that there’s a lot of working going on in the US, in particular, in response to the overturning of Roe versus Wade so, for example, women’s collectives that we’ve kind of been talking about before, coming together, pooling funds to particularly advance in the campaigning work because I think that’s another particularly underserved area when we think about philanthropy, people like to support something that’s really tangible and there’s a direct outcome of their giving but I think, you know, when people think about a cause like this, they want to know actually how they can really effectively advocate for women and for women’s rights so, definitely there’s been a huge surge in interest and activity in the US around how people are really thinking about women’s access to their reproductive rights.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
And we touched on this a little already but I was wondering if you could tell me a little more about some of your clients in this sphere and what have they been up to?
Rebecca McMurray
Yeah, it’s one of my favourite topic of conversation actually. I always think it’s a huge privilege to work with the people that we do and I’m always fascinated about their giving. So, because we’re talking about women’s philanthropy, I’ll focus here on a couple of female wealth holders that we are working with. So, the first is a matriarch who is an inheritor of a family business and a family foundation and she has very much grown up with a ethos of philanthropy in the family and as she was thinking about how she could engage her children in that, she has three daughters, she was thinking about what structures can we put in place within the family to really engage them and get them interested in the act of giving and they actually came to Donor Advised Fund on the advice of their wealth manager, so they have a foundation already but they were looking for some different vehicles that could sit alongside that foundation to offer different kinds of flexibility in how they distribute their philanthropy. What’s particularly interesting about this one is that they have one donor advised fund that is used to administer their grant making and then they have another one they invested in an impact fund and the children were involved in kind of setting the criteria for that impact fund and they’re also getting involved obviously in a low risk way in learning about the investments that are being made through that fund, so I think everyone’s benefiting in that respect and it’s also giving the children a really, really great window into helping them to explore the different causes that are close to their hearts. And the structure, the way that the family actually operate those altogether is they get together monthly, almost in a family council type way and they discuss their philanthropic objectives and which charities to support and then come and make that recommendation to us.
There’s also another example of a client who became wealthy upon divorce and wanted to use some of that money to set up or create a philanthropic pot to create a fund and she kind of came to the table having not really been involved in charitable giving before, you know maybe dabbled in it to a certain extent but didn’t really know what to do with it and how to approach that giving and actually, a DAF for someone who’s just starting out and thinking about how they approach their philanthropy, can really be a really, really great option because it’s very safe, it’s very comfortable and there’s quite limited responsibility so, if you think about setting up your own charitable trust for example, you would need your own board, you would need to be reporting to the Charity Commission every year, you know, you would probably have to employ an accountant to work on your accounts so, it can be quite a lot of work and obviously not everyone has the time to do that or wants to take on that responsibility, which was the case of this particular individual so, decided to go down the DAF route. A good way for her, starting to get involved and start her philanthropic journey and really take ownership of that giving.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
So, one of the real buzzwords of this century and last century, is ESG investing and impact investing, making sure what you do has a tangible impact on the world and it’s measurable. I was wondering how have you seen this develop at NPT and do you have any particular examples of clients or individuals that have wanted to specifically invest with impact investing or ESG in mind?
Rebecca McMurray
Yeah, I would completely agree with you, it has become a bit of a buzzword and in the same way that we sometimes see people thinking about philanthropy, it really exists on a continuum and there’s such a broad spectrum you know, at one end you have pure philanthropic giving and then on the other end, you probably have your impact investing and I see, you know, ESG as kind of sitting slightly outside of that but I definitely think that there’s much more interest in that and with that, comes much more engagement and actually, there’s some, there’s some data out there to suggest that more women care about social investing versus men and interestingly, there’s an argument to say that if more women were to invest at the same rate as men, particularly as their wealth grows, then there would be additional, I think over a trillion, available for responsible investing so, I think that’s quite interesting for us to think about. As women are taking more ownership of wealth and particularly in conjunction with the next generation, there is an increasing pressure on companies to invest with an ESG mindset and I think some of that is being led by the fact that women in particular rank their impact on societal causes above their wealth, so I think it’s interesting when we think about what that could mean in the future. Women and men also prioritise different elements of ESG and again, that will just reflect their engagement with kind of different social issues. At NPT UK we offer the opportunity for donors to invest in impact funds and this can be through a pool fund or it can be through a fund that they direct, whether they’ve got an interest in education for example, they can work with that investment fund to direct their investments in that way.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
And how would you recommend that advisors support their clients, for instance if you were to give some advice to a lawyer or an accountant or a financial adviser, how can they best support their clients and also female clients?
Rebecca McMurray
Yeah, thank you for asking that question. I think it’s really important and I come back to the point about philanthropy being inherently personal. Everyone is going to come at philanthropy from a completely different viewpoint, different background, different experiences, so the most important thing is really to approach it at an individual level. Obviously then you have kind of family dynamics and different members of the family indeed to involve within that conversation as well and you know, so family councils can be a great way of getting the family together to explore their philanthropic purpose. So that’s number one is, approach it at the human level and have values based conversations and indeed, that can really help to build a relationship with your client further so, where you’re normally talking to them about their accounting or their tax, you know this can really add a completely different framing for some of the conversations and broaden that relationship you can have with your client.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
Yeah, that’s a really good point.
Rebecca McMurray
The second thing I would say is to really be aware of some of the trends and different approaches within philanthropy so, if you’re planning to have a conversation with your client about philanthropy, perhaps consult others in your network who can help to provide some advice on maybe different philanthropic structures that can be used, trusts, donor advised funds, and to learn about some of the different trends that are out there at the moment. I would also encourage advisors to, and indeed they don’t have to do this themselves but this is where the point of having a really strong network comes into play, is to encourage your clients to be quite strategic in their giving, to identify a particular cause and area that they feel really passionate about because ultimately, that’s how they’re going to get the most out of their giving. And again, that really speaks to how we see that women are approaching their philanthropy so, your female clients are probably going to really appreciate if you come to them in wanting to have a conversation that seeks to understand them and help them to focus and learn about where they want to give.
I would also think about integrating conversations about structures like DAFs into wealth planning conversations and informing clients of their options, you know, ultimately it’s their decision to make but the more that we are helping to bring that advice to the table and really help people to think about the different ways that they can have impact through their giving the better. And this doesn’t always have to happen in that kind of traditional annual meeting for example that people have with their accountant and indeed it can happen sometimes in some of the most unexplained ways so, a client I used to work at actually came to me via her divorce lawyer and she’d gone through a divorce, wanted to do something really meaningful, kind of coming off the back of what was quite a tumultuous experience and it was only through the relationship that I had with that advisor and her with me that you know, we were able to connect that client with a particular cause that she felt really passionate about.
And then the final thing I would just say is to work with your clients to think about what they want to give to, where they want to give and how they want to give. You know, traditionally, we think of philanthropic giving as giving cash, which is definitely really impactful but there are so many different ways that you can contribute to causes, you know through gifting of shares for example and gifting of different assets. And then also think about, you know, are you wanting to give in lifetime or are you wanting to give after life because then that adds different elements to the planning conversations that you will have. And then there’s a couple of other questions you know that advisors can work with clients to think about such as how do you want to involve the rest of the family and children? How do you want to pass that on to the next generation and do you want to be collaborating with others in this space and what are others already doing? So, really it’s kind of looking at the broader environment, not just diving straight into philanthropy and I think that through taking that really holistic approach and sometimes over a period of time and successive conversations, that’s how people I think can get the most out of their philanthropic giving.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
Well, I think every advisor should take note of what you said just then because it’s incredibly helpful and I know I’ll be keeping this in mind when I speak to future clients.
Well for now, let’s wrap up there. I’d like to say thanks so much to Rebecca McMurray for joining me for this Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions podcast.
Rebecca McMurray
Thank you very much for having me.
Jessica Scheps, Associate
Mishcon de Reya
I’m Jessica Scheps and the Digital Sessions are a series of online events, videos and podcasts, all available at Mishcon.com and if you have any questions you would like answered or suggestions of what you’d like us to cover, please do let us know at digitalsessions@mishcon.com.
The Mishcon Academy Digital Sessions. To access advice for businesses that is regularly updated, please visit Mishcon.com.